Author Topic: Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020  (Read 1377 times)

Offline Spikes

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Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020
« on: December 21, 2019, 08:08:22 AM »
All,

The FSO Team has made some adjustments to the FSO Commitment numbers moving forward. This change will hopefully help Admin CMs better assign squads so sides are more balanced, and will help CiCs when creating orders so they can better plan for numbers on their side. The intention is not to penalize squadrons, just to help the event as a whole. Currently, all squads will show no commitment numbers, so please be diligent over the next week or so to update your numbers, otherwise in January the Admins will not know what to do with you. :)

The new options for squads are as follows:
3-5
5-7
7-9
9-11
11-13
13-15
16+

With this, we will also be dropping the -2/+2 leeway down to -1/+1 to your commitment numbers.

From the CM Team - wishing everyone a safe and happy Holiday season! :salute
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Offline waystin2

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Re: Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2019, 09:47:13 AM »
Pigs updated.

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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2019, 07:44:10 PM »
Just FYI, 412th had... (in 2019):
an average of 12.75 pilots
a minimum of 8 pilots
a maximum of 17 pilots.

So what happens if a squad exceeds commitment?

Offline Dantoo

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Re: Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2019, 08:00:38 PM »
I can't see me signing on for this.  I break my butt trying to get numbers for each event and because we're aren't all in one place doing the same things in the same seasons it is impossible for me to be more precise than I am now.

I know you are trying to do something positive and I understand the reason why you're trying to do this, but it is close to breaking something that is already brittle.

I cannot support this implementation.


I get really really tired of selective realism disguised as a desire to make bombers easier to kill.

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Offline Spikes

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Re: Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2019, 09:04:35 PM »
Just FYI, 412th had... (in 2019):
an average of 12.75 pilots
a minimum of 8 pilots
a maximum of 17 pilots.

So what happens if a squad exceeds commitment?

Nothing different than what happens now: nothing. We need the help from the COs, XOs, etc. to make this event fun and balanced for everyone else. The Admins can only do so much to design a balanced event. There were 50/50 splits this year that ended up with an extra 10+ pilots on one side, causing an imbalance. They will do side-splits based on the squadron's commitment numbers. If those numbers vary high or low from what is stated, it will either help or hurt your side on a month to month basis.

Many events this year were tarnished due to huge number swings one way or the other. I am hoping squadron Officers will be diligent in updating from month to month to help us produce balanced events.

I can't see me signing on for this.  I break my butt trying to get numbers for each event and because we're aren't all in one place doing the same things in the same seasons it is impossible for me to be more precise than I am now.

I know you are trying to do something positive and I understand the reason why you're trying to do this, but it is close to breaking something that is already brittle.

I cannot support this implementation.

If everyone is being as precise as possible, that is all we can ask for. It is understandable to have a variable amount of people on a month to month basis, the goal is to try and hone in on that number for all squads if possible. The numbers overlap for that reason - if you need to bump down due to some people not being there, it is not a huge change as it used to be (eg. going from 4-6 to 7-10 is a large jump).

We are going to try it for a few months. If it does not work out as intended for one reason or another, we can go back to the old system. Additionally I am willing to hear any suggestions.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 09:21:46 PM by Spikes »
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Offline perdue3

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Re: Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2019, 09:56:29 AM »
I can't see me signing on for this.  I break my butt trying to get numbers for each event and because we're aren't all in one place doing the same things in the same seasons it is impossible for me to be more precise than I am now.

I know you are trying to do something positive and I understand the reason why you're trying to do this, but it is close to breaking something that is already brittle.

I cannot support this implementation.

It is okay if you have more or less than your commitment. There will be no penalties. The idea is just to give everyone a more precise estimate which is needed because of our decline in numbers. I know it may be difficult for some squads, but please give it a shot. It may help our event.

We will use it for 3 months, then assess the system.
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Offline Becinhu

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Re: Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2019, 07:15:38 PM »
I think in concept its a good idea, however, lets say a squad use a 9-10 commitment and they are, lets say, a USN squad. On average they are within their commitment but in a month when they get blue planes their guys crawl out of the woodwork and they field 18. Then we have the same problem on a larger scale. I see this happening more with the Luftwaffe squads because they tend to be a bit larger anyway and the extreme side imbalances tend to be the German FSOs on average. BUT, I am more concerned with the recent stint of plane imbalances more so than side imbalances. Let's use December as an example. Every single Axis plane had an extreme speed advantage over anything the Allies had. The fighters averaged 30-50 mph faster, the bombers....not even close. The Allies had elephants with wings and the Axis had Boston's which nothing could catch, when HE-111s or JU-88s would have been better for speed instead.

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Offline snugar109

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Re: Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2019, 09:36:48 AM »
325th updated, but based on an average.
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2019, 10:04:02 AM »
I think in concept its a good idea, however, lets say a squad use a 9-10 commitment and they are, lets say, a USN squad. On average they are within their commitment but in a month when they get blue planes their guys crawl out of the woodwork and they field 18. Then we have the same problem on a larger scale. I see this happening more with the Luftwaffe squads because they tend to be a bit larger anyway and the extreme side imbalances tend to be the German FSOs on average. BUT, I am more concerned with the recent stint of plane imbalances more so than side imbalances. Let's use December as an example. Every single Axis plane had an extreme speed advantage over anything the Allies had. The fighters averaged 30-50 mph faster, the bombers....not even close. The Allies had elephants with wings and the Axis had Boston's which nothing could catch, when HE-111s or JU-88s would have been better for speed instead.

Well, the goal is never to purposely create an imbalanced event. There are many factors that we consider when we make adjustments to designs. Unfortunately number imbalances are a big factor that skew results of a frame or design. My stomach rolls when a design calls for a 50/50 split and one side has 15-20 pilots more than the other, but we do the best we can. This change will hopefully make the best we can even better.

Plane balancing goes back and forth depending on year and theater. This is another big factor in balance - and as time goes on the Allied planes get much better than Axis planes and sooner on top of that. I personally have no issue taking planes out for the sake of balance, but don't like shoeing planes in that weren't there. For example, in November's Operation Tungsten event, the FAA had Barracudas and Swordfish. The closest thing we have is a TBM, so we felt it best to leave it in but not require it to be flown.

Another factor is a pilot's comfort in any particular ride. Often times it is difficult to hop in various rides month to month especially when they are big leaps, eg. going from a Yak one month to a Jug the next. I know that personally, flying a Yak this past month in FSO and TFT was a total change of pace for me.

In our first running of Operation Torch, we were successfully able to balance a DB-7 (Boston) against an SBD. Not sure if we can ever accomplish that feat again. Not that that particular match-up was an ideal situation, but we made it work with what we had. As for He-111s and Ju-88s, the Vichy French never had them and we like historical accuracy.

We have been trying to spice things up a bit and not run the same stuff over and over, but I suppose that is what we will have to do. :salute
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Offline Nefarious

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Re: Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2019, 10:45:22 AM »
The following squads have yet to update thier numbers and preferences for January.

 - 327th Steel Talons
 - 9 GIAP VVS RKKA
 - CLAIM JUMPERS
 - ~~~THE UNFORGIVEN~~~
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline RufusLeaking

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Re: Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2020, 03:04:24 PM »
Claim Jumpers updated.

A thought on balance:

A couple of reserve squads that don't get assigned to a side until Friday at T-10.

It would allow a 10 pilot swing for balance.

It would require extreme flexibility on the part of the reserves.

... a half baked thought.
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Offline SAAMIAM

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Re: Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2020, 09:45:38 PM »
In response to AK Marine to participate in onights FSO, please include the BT squad We are 6 pilots, BT Diver is CO

Offline UncleKurt

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Re: Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2020, 10:00:39 AM »
 :aok
Thanks Ruf!!
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Squad Commitment Numbers - Change for 2020
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2020, 07:54:47 AM »
Claim Jumpers updated.

A thought on balance:

A couple of reserve squads that don't get assigned to a side until Friday at T-10.

It would allow a 10 pilot swing for balance.

It would require extreme flexibility on the part of the reserves.

... a half baked thought.

This is something that has been mulled over...it has pros and cons. Pros being the stuff stated above. Cons being the squad can't get assigned or rec orders until go time basically. Also T-10 may not even be good enough. Many times we'll get 20-30 pilots hop into SEA1 at the last minute (within 5 minutes to launch or less).

Another thought that has been passed around is some sort of flexible multiplier on bomber points when dealing with side imbalance. Eg. if a side has +15 pilots when it should be a 50/50 split, their bombers/attackers are worth 1.25x the amount of points. Likewise, if a side is 15 pilots short, their bombers/attackers are worth .75x the original stated amount. These multiplier numbers are arbitrary. It does not help the imbalance itself (actual numbers on game night), but it eases the damage done and allows the short side to stay in it scoring wise.

In response to AK Marine to participate in onights FSO, please include the BT squad We are 6 pilots, BT Diver is CO

SAAMIAM,

BTDiver will have to log into AHEvents.net or register an account and get a squad set up in the FSO section. You will be officially put into rotation next month (Feb). If a squad is willing to take you guys on this month, they can do so as long as they don't go over numbers.

If BTDiver wants to reach out to me I can help him out in getting set up (not sure of his BBS ID). :salute
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