Show me some factual info

[Nefarious]

On the speed, both Indicated and Ground, for 8th Air Force Bomber Formations.

[APDrone]

"The Wrong Stuff"  by Truman Smith  mentions that 150mph was the speed for 8th AF B17 formations.  Slow enough for all planes to maintain formation.

Haven't found any official stats, yet.

 

[FLS]

Here you go. I searched for "speed of B-17 bomber formation."

150 indicated and ground speed would depend on altitude.

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/03/12/b-17-fly-formation-via-b-17-pilot-training-manual-not-flown-closer-one-another-50-feet-nose-tail/

[asterix]

I do not know how true the film info is, but Target for Today mentioned group climb as 150mph, 100ft/min and later after bombing, lead straight for 15 sec, then turn to rally point, speed 155 ias, making s turns for others to catch up.

Memphis Belle mentioned climb 300ft/min after 10000ft.

How to Fly the Boeing B-17 "Flying Fortress" - Flight Procedures (Restored 1943) mentiones speed 150 ias and power used for normal cruise is depending on flight conditions- desired range, fuel available, weather conditions, altitude, gross weight etc. Pilot`s operating handbook should have graphical tabels to find performance data and power settings. Like distance travelled to reach target altitude at certain gross weight etc.

Ground speed depends on wind as well.

[FLS]

Good point about wind but that's an arena setting and will probably be off.

[save]

AH B17 formations can fly at ridiculous speed rendering Bf110, Bf410 useless against bombers if you do not HO them in AH.

[drgondog]

150 mph TAS at 25,000 was typical for flight planning 8th AF ops. B-24 was faster but settled for typical 22,000 feet at 180mph TAS.

[hazmatt]

Are we sure these numbers are right?

150TAS at 25K seems kinda slow as that would be somewhere around 100IAS.

150IAS would be somewhere around 225TAS which seems more reasonable to me.

[TequilaChaser]

Are we sure these numbers are right?

150TAS at 25K seems kinda slow as that would be somewhere around 100IAS.

150IAS would be somewhere around 225TAS which seems more reasonable to me.

As FLS posted and hazmatt it is 150 IAS!   

TAS is your ground speed which will be higher than your IAS the higher you get in less dense air......

Hope this helps

TC

[Busher]

As FLS posted and hazmatt it is 150 IAS!   

TAS is your ground speed which will be higher than your IAS the higher you get in less dense air......

Hope this helps

TC

TAS only equals ground speed in still air.

[TequilaChaser]

TAS only equals ground speed in still air.

I disagree.....

True Air  Speed
Indicated Air Speed

One is corrected, one is not....regardless of atmospheric conditions

Then again I do suffer dementia/memory loss

[TequilaChaser]

What do pilots use IAS for? (it is a 1 word answer)


What do pilots and others use TAS for?  (has several answers)

[Busher]

What do pilots use IAS for? (it is a 1 word answer)


What do pilots and others use TAS for?  (has several answers)

Well, I was a professional pilot for 41 years  - 37 in an airline so let me try to offer a few answers.

Pilots use IAS for;
1: V1
2: Vr
3: V2
4: Flap retract and extend speeds
5: Gear extend speeds
6: Rudder travel limit speeds
7: Airspeed limits such as 200KIAS when <3000 ft AGL and 10 miles from an airport + 250 KIAS below 10,000 ft.
8: Best Rate and best angle climb speeds
9: Airframe Limit speed
10: Turbulent air penetration speed

I could go on

TAS of course, is used as a flight planning tool so when compared with predicted winds, the pilot can accurately estimate his enroute time and thereby accurately estimate the amount of fuel that will be required for a flight. Unless I am missing what you are trying to say, I am sure that you can appreciate that a jet flying west at 450 KTAS but encountering a 100 knot headwind will only have a groundspeed of 350 knots.

[TequilaChaser]

Well, I was a professional pilot for 41 years  - 37 in an airline so let me try to offer a few answers.

Pilots use IAS for;
1: V1
2: Vr
3: V2
4: Flap retract and extend speeds
5: Gear extend speeds
6: Rudder travel limit speeds
7: Airspeed limits such as 200KIAS when <3000 ft AGL and 10 miles from an airport + 250 KIAS below 10,000 ft.
8: Best Rate and best angle climb speeds
9: Airframe Limit speed
10: Turbulent air penetration speed

I could go on

TAS of course, is used as a flight planning tool so when compared with predicted winds, the pilot can accurately estimate his enroute time and thereby accurately estimate the amount of fuel that will be required for a flight. Unless I am missing what you are trying to say, I am sure that you can appreciate that a jet flying west at 450 KTAS but encountering a 100 knot headwind will only have a groundspeed of 350 knots.

I was simplifying it.... Your 1 thru 10 for KIAS (knots indicated) I put it with 1 word as. Manuevering

Agree with you on KTAS.... Plane performance stats, flight plan, etc

But if you're running into a head wind of 100 knots would that not show up on your TAS indicator as 350 because of the drag it is putting on the airframe?

[Oldman731]

But if you're running into a head wind of 100 knots would that not show up on your TAS indicator as 350 because of the drag it is putting on the airframe?

No.  Your ground speed would significantly change, but your TAS - the speed you're actually moving through the air mass - would not change.

There's an exception, as always, and that's if there's wind shear, but typically you only encounter that at very low levels.

- oldman