Author Topic: Dark Man Cometh???  (Read 126208 times)

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1710 on: March 28, 2020, 01:36:23 PM »
Right. That is what I am basing the severity on. How many are dying solely from just having Corona Virus? All we know is that they say, X # died this morning. (Hate waking up to that every morning, btw) we dont know how many had preexisting conditions or medical inefficiencies. How many were already in the hospital?

For what it's worth. I know this is extremely bad for the economy and people's families in the short run, but I see a lot of positives coming out of this in a few years. America will be much better prepared for anything, it will expand online health services and may help working from home evolve in the workforce. It will clean up the sickness and we will see many less cases of people getting it. (I hope). I am trying to be optimistic about It.

now that is a lucid , well thought- out  intelligent statement.  i hope it turns out right.


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Offline turt21

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1711 on: March 28, 2020, 02:41:35 PM »
And it seems its looking for stupid people, those not observing 6 ft. Might end up being a better world afterall.

Offline FLS

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1712 on: March 28, 2020, 02:53:44 PM »
That depends on who is in charge and what their priorities are.  :aok

Offline hitech

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1713 on: March 28, 2020, 03:03:24 PM »
Here is the best study I have seen so far which ran a real test

https://futurism.com/neoscope/half-coronavirus-carriers-no-symptoms

Summation.
Iceland population 364,000
12,615 random people tested.
802 confirmed cases.
50% confirmed cases had no symptoms.
The other confirmed 50% show mild cold like symptoms.

This is a fair indicator that in the USA the positive test  are only confirming the tip of the ice burg. And hence many more people are and were infected, but they simply never knew it.

Only a big sample study testing for the antibodies will give us a real picture of what is and has been going on.

HiTech


Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1714 on: March 28, 2020, 03:25:48 PM »
On a lighter and more heartwarming note.
My wife is telling me that a lot of people are donating and trying to donate things to the hospital where she works and I used to.
While they still are in dire need of more. Some of the N95 masks are even starting to show up. (although there seems to be a specific segment of society, I wont mention which, that is trying to shake them down for payments for well above normal pricing Most are outright donating them. but also other things such as disposable cover alls, blankets, You name it. A lot of stuff they cant use but they are taking what they can. One of the largest things they are receiving is food. Usually take out from restaurants. Both from the restaurants themselves as well ad private individuals. Much is being sent to individual departments. But more then enough is being donated to feed pretty mu h the entire hospital. My wife's Dept hasn't had to buy or even eat the lunches they have brought in for a week now.
From what I understand. One lady who called yesterday in wants to find a way to send 500 pizzas to the hospital this coming  week so as to feed all 4,000 employees.
Now if that actually happens or not remains to be seen But people are buying and sending enough food to feed entire departments
The outpouring of support is really starting to pick up.
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Offline mora

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1715 on: March 28, 2020, 03:28:37 PM »
Best data comes from Diamond Princess and South Korea. Both show a CFR of about 1,5 %.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1716 on: March 28, 2020, 03:35:53 PM »
Here is the best study I have seen so far which ran a real test

I'd make a couple of points on that...


50% confirmed cases had no symptoms.

No symptoms at the time they were tested.  That doesn't mean they never developed symptoms later. 


The other confirmed 50% show mild cold like symptoms.

Mild symptoms at the time they were tested.  That doesn't mean their symptoms didn't worsen later.

I bring that up because it seems to be emerging that there can be a 2-5 day period where the person is infected and infectious yet not feeling symptoms.  That may develop into a Flu like illness for 1-2 weeks of varying severity (possibly due the the volume of initial viral load of the exposure), and some percentage can become severe enough to require hospitalization, and some of those become fatalities.  I've seen some interviews where doctors had patient they though were responding to treatment and had a good prognosis, die within 24 hours from a sudden worsening.

When you mass-test a population like that, you are simply taking a snapshot and capturing where everyone is at that moment along that progression timeline in a freeze-frame. It doesn't mean their progression stays frozen.

And hence many more people are and were infected, but they simply never knew it.

This study doesn't suggest that in anyway to me.  If anything it suggest higher danger because some are running around infectious for a time and not realizing it. And all that taking temps at an airport, may not be catching many infectious vectors.

However, there are serum anti-body tests that are coming soon that if we get wide-spread testing deployed and we see large percentage the population show anti-bodies with them not having known they were ill, then that would be encouraging as it means we would be closer to herd immunity than we realized.  But I've seen nothing that leads me to pin my hopes on that yet.  I await the data.

[Edit] As you mentioned.  I agree.
Only a big sample study testing for the antibodies will give us a real picture of what is and has been going on.


On the other hand, it looks like it will have taken less than 2 days to double the death count from the 26th instead of 3 days.  That's a bad thing.  You can't project along that trend line forever, but given the 1 month lag time between infection and fatality, I think you could project along it 3-4 week with 85% confidence.  And that is based on hard data, not guess numbers of untested infection.

Bloody April will be a real eye-opener for a lot of people.  May won't be much better but maybe we will start to see the benefits of the current lock-down.


 :salute






« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 04:33:37 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Meatwad

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1717 on: March 28, 2020, 03:39:21 PM »
Here is the best study I have seen so far which ran a real test

https://futurism.com/neoscope/half-coronavirus-carriers-no-symptoms

Summation.
Iceland population 364,000
12,615 random people tested.
802 confirmed cases.
50% confirmed cases had no symptoms.
The other confirmed 50% show mild cold like symptoms.

This is a fair indicator that in the USA the positive test  are only confirming the tip of the ice burg. And hence many more people are and were infected, but they simply never knew it.

Only a big sample study testing for the antibodies will give us a real picture of what is and has been going on.

HiTech

A few weeks ago I developed a light dry cough and a sore throat. A few days after that started I started getting a pain in the upper chest, like there was a pressure on it. Taking a deep breath made the lungs hurt. About 3 days ago the sore throat is gone, but slight cough and feeling in chest is still there. Never had a fever. But no tests are issued unless you have a fever or deathly sick. So if thats all I get between now and the end of the year and no other symptoms, do I assume that I contracted it and it was mild enough that it didnt affect me, or was I lucky and was a passing bug and not covid-19?
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1718 on: March 28, 2020, 03:48:12 PM »
But no tests are issued unless you have a fever or deathly sick. So if thats all I get between now and the end of the year and no other symptoms, do I assume that I contracted it and it was mild enough that it didnt affect me, or was I lucky and was a passing bug and not covid-19?

There is a test coming soon that will check your blood for anti-bodies of the virus.  The left over evidence that you had the virus and recovered. 

:salute
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Offline icepac

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1719 on: March 28, 2020, 06:42:58 PM »
3000 died in italy over a 24 hour period.

USA death toll at 2,200 with now 123,778 confirmed cases.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1720 on: March 28, 2020, 06:47:13 PM »
Here is the best study I have seen so far which ran a real test

https://futurism.com/neoscope/half-coronavirus-carriers-no-symptoms

Summation.
Iceland population 364,000
12,615 random people tested.
802 confirmed cases.
50% confirmed cases had no symptoms.
The other confirmed 50% show mild cold like symptoms.

This is a fair indicator that in the USA the positive test  are only confirming the tip of the ice burg. And hence many more people are and were infected, but they simply never knew it.

Only a big sample study testing for the antibodies will give us a real picture of what is and has been going on.

HiTech

This is not surprising at all as the regular flu runs the same. Many have it and never see a doctor. They have few issues. I imagine that there are a large number that have had corona that are not counted as they just took care of it themselves.

Texas now stands at 27 deaths. As I said before, one is too many but this is so few compared to other things.
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1721 on: March 28, 2020, 06:53:37 PM »
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 07:51:05 PM by Brooke »

Offline Brooke

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1722 on: March 28, 2020, 07:50:43 PM »
Let me reference only graphs and dollar amounts.  Speaking strictly and only of economics here, not Topic That Shall Not Be Named.

This week, there was approved $2.2 billion payment mostly to companies and some to individuals.

Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve balance sheet has had large creation of currency to buy T-notes, T-bills, mortgages, corporate debt, and junk bonds from banks and other companies:



The current rate of increase in the Fed balance sheet is $1 trillion per month.

In total, then, about $4 trillion for the current crisis so far.

What was paid for some other major items, in 2020 dollars:

WWII:  $4.8 trillion
All aid given to Europe (including Marshall plan) after end of WWII:  $271 billion
Louisiana purchase:  $321 million
Apollo program:  $145 billion
New Deal (total spending during Great Depression):  $923 billion
Spending for Financial Crisis of 2008:  $4.8 trillion

Thus, one WWII worth was spent on 2008 crisis.  Another WWII worth (so far) is being spent on the 2020 crisis.

Who knew peacetime could be so expensive?


Offline guncrasher

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1723 on: March 28, 2020, 08:05:54 PM »
ww2 was too long ago.

maybe quote middle east wars last 20 years.


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Offline Brooke

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Re: Dark Man Cometh???
« Reply #1724 on: March 28, 2020, 10:09:48 PM »
ww2 was too long ago.

maybe quote middle east wars last 20 years.


semp

You can compare the cost of things across history (1 year ago, 10 years ago, 100 years ago) when you adjust for the changes to currency value.  In our case, since it was all in US$, we need only to inflation adjust.

Reinhart and Rogoff (two luminary economists) famously did that even back 800 years in their influential book "This Time is Different:  Eight Centuries of Financial Folly."

But, if you want to know what some more-modern wars cost in 2020 dollars:

Iraq War (2003-2010):  $1.1 trillion
War in Afghanistan (2001-2019):  $1.2 trillion

Each of them, then, is one month of current Fed money creation.