Trolling the Canadian Forrest in the Phantom

[morfiend]

So Puma,did you get paid to have all that fun?  Seems like you should have had to pay them not the other way around!

   




   

[Busher]

Puma, if you don't mind me asking, why did you leave the Air Force in favor of civil aviation? In Canada where I live it's an obvious choice - Pilots are removed from flying far too soon and assigned a desk - if they stay in.

[Puma44]

Perhaps I was over-inclusive.  The accident rates for the F-100 and F-104 are famous.  Hard to tell with the F-105 which of the losses were combat and which were accidents, but nearly half of the total production was destroyed.  Everyone seems to have liked your 106 (see Jack Broughton's article, here:  https://www.airforcemag.com/PDF/MagazineArchive/Documents/2012/September%202012/0912century.pdf).  May well be that the problem was training pilots to handle the fast new jets (there's a study out there somewhere).

- oldman

I thought that was where you were going with your statement but, just wanted to inquire.  Yeah, the swept wing Hun was pretty scary at first but was proven to be flown safely after some notable pilots demonstrated it.  The F-104, referred to as the “Zipper” was obviously a key to be handled carefully.  Definitely not slow speed dogfighter. 

[Puma44]

So Puma,did you get paid to have all that fun?  Seems like you should have had to pay them not the other way around!

   




   

Oh yeah, I got paid to do it.  That’s the fantastic part of military aviation.  I never told anyone, but I would have paid to do it.   Shhhhhh!  Don’t tell anyone.

[Mister Fork]

Seriously Puma, you need to write down your stories into a book. And I'm sure you have some great ones as a SouthWest cattle hauler.  My wife was a FA for 10 years, and man, the stories I heard when she came back from a pairing.

[Puma44]

Puma, if you don't mind me asking, why did you leave the Air Force in favor of civil aviation? In Canada where I live it's an obvious choice - Pilots are removed from flying far too soon and assigned a desk - if they stay in.

Busher, I retired at the end of 21 years and after PCS to my desired retirement assignment.  I did get stuck at a desk the last few years due to the administration at the time drawing (historically typical with democratic administrations) down the military.  I volunteered to fly anything, anywhere on the planet just to get back in the cockpit.  I was basically told by my assignments handler to “go pack sand”.  The USAF also had/has an “Every man a general officer” mentality, meaning EVERYONE had to do professional military education (PME) that had nothing to do with flying and fighting.  Without this PME, promotion to higher ranks wasn’t going to happen.  So, pilots were/are forced to use time and effort on this stuff that didn’t make for a better war fighter, but a very small chance of being a general officer.  And they couldn’t, and still don’t, understand why pilots were bailing in droves to go to the airlines.  So, at some point, the pilots get pissed off enough to step over the side for a much better life style.  I could go on for pages.........

A couple of years ago, I was “birthday retired” from the airlines after 21 years.

[Busher]

Busher, I retired at the end of 21 years and after PCS to my desired retirement assignment.  I did get stuck at a desk the last few years due to the administration at the time drawing (historically typical with democratic administrations) down the military.  I volunteered to fly anything, anywhere on the planet just to get back in the cockpit.  I was basically told by my assignments handler to “go pack sand”.  The USAF also had/has an “Every man a general officer” mentality, meaning EVERYONE had to do professional military education (PME) that had nothing to do with flying and fighting.  Without this PME, promotion to higher ranks wasn’t going to happen.  So, pilots were/are forced to use time and effort on this stuff that didn’t make for a better war fighter, but a small chance of being a general officer.  And they couldn’t, and still don’t, understand why pilots were bailing in droves to go to the airlines.  So, at some point, the pilots get pissed off enough to step over the side for a much better life style.  I could go on for pages.........

A couple of years ago, I was “birthday retired” from the airlines after 21 years.

Thanks for that. As a check airman and instructor for the airline, I heard basically the same story from so many former military pilots (who as I mentioned before were a joy to train - way beyond just the basic initial endorsement stuff).

I never could understand military "thinking". To allow a very experienced resource to get separated from flying and from all the young candidates that crave the knowledge they have just seems kinda dumb.

[Puma44]

Thanks for that. As a check airman and instructor for the airline, I heard basically the same story from so many former military pilots (who as I mentioned before were a joy to train - way beyond just the basic initial endorsement stuff).

I never could understand military "thinking". To allow a very experienced resource to get separated from flying and from all the young candidates that crave the knowledge they have just seems kinda dumb.

Agree, a very expensive, highly experienced resource gone to waste.  When I graduated USAF UPT, just over a million dollars had been spent on my training.  That’s just a base line pilot.  Then there are survival schools, the first operational aircraft, and continuing flight training/proficiency in that aircraft. 

[Puma44]

Seriously Puma, you need to write down your stories into a book. And I'm sure you have some great ones as a SouthWest cattle hauler.  My wife was a FA for 10 years, and man, the stories I heard when she came back from a pairing.

Thanks Fork! You guys are convincing me slowly but surely. 

Your wife is a Super Hero!  I could have never handled what FAs put up with and always supported them when it was time for a bad actor pax to get off the aircraft.  Like a bull rider tries to make 8 seconds on the beast, I could have never lasted in the back without getting fired.  8 seconds?  No way!

[Mister Fork]

Thanks Fork! You guys are convincing me slowly but surely. 

Your wife is a Super Hero!  I could have never handled what FAs put up with and always supported them when it was time for a bad actor pax to get off the aircraft.  Like a bull rider tries to make 8 seconds on the beast, I could have never lasted in the back without getting fired.  8 seconds?  No way!

From unruly passengers, amazingly trashy public hygiene issues, sexual misconduct of passengers (AND staff), and then, there are just the scary landings.  She could write a book as well.

[Arlo]

From unruly passengers, amazingly trashy public hygiene issues, sexual misconduct of passengers (AND staff), and then, there are just the scary landings.  She could write a book as well.

I encourage her, too.

[Busher]

From unruly passengers, amazingly trashy public hygiene issues, sexual misconduct of passengers (AND staff), and then, there are just the scary landings.  She could write a book as well.

I had in my crew some truly wonderful ladies (yes the majority were ladies back then) looking after the customers. I know the kind of abusive passenger behavior these days would lead me to have the cops meet a lot of airplanes.

We enjoyed the teamwork... they used to joke - do you know what separates a Flight Attendant from the lowest form of scum on the earth... the cockpit door. It was all in good fun.

[Puma44]

From unruly passengers, amazingly trashy public hygiene issues, sexual misconduct of passengers (AND staff), and then, there are just the scary landings.  She could write a book as well.

Oh, my.....trashy public hygiene issues!  In the 737, the forward law is directly behind the Captain’s seat.  Up front we could hear and smell everything that was or wasn’t happening in the lav.  For instance, we could hear if the soap dispenser was used, or not, the water faucet was used, or not, or if paper towels were pulled out of the dispenser, or not, and if the lav door was locked or not.   Especially disturbing was if all the above were “or nots” and the door was unlocked and opened, after an eye irritating odor seeped into the cockpit.   

Busher, I’m suspect you and I could fill a multi page thread of adventures with the traveling public.

[Busher]

Busher, I’m suspect you and I could fill a multi page thread of adventures with the traveling public.

You flew in the airlines so I know you meant to say "a multi page thread of aggravations with the traveling public". I always thought FedEx would be a better seat.

Now let's get back to the jets you flew and that I would have loved to fly.

[Spitter]

Thanks for that. As a check airman and instructor for the airline, I heard basically the same story from so many former military pilots (who as I mentioned before were a joy to train - way beyond just the basic initial endorsement stuff).

I never could understand military "thinking". To allow a very experienced resource to get separated from flying and from all the young candidates that crave the knowledge they have just seems kinda dumb.

If it's any consolation, the USAF still hasn't learned this lesson.  (I'm a civilian contractor at Hill AFB and we get a lot of 'retired' pilots that just want to fly.)