Ruger PC9 Carbine or S&W M&P Sport 2

[redcatcherb412]

I have an S&W MP Shield in .45 without a safety.   love it

They are sweet Hajo,  affectionately call mine a mini grenade launcher in a pocket

[Gman]

Not sure but I was thinking of the Ruger model 19100 and adding to it

https://ruger.com/products/pcCarbine/models.html

The S&W would be a 10305, adding a red dot site to it and that's it for now

https://www.smith-wesson.com/search/node/10305

Hope this is in the right forum

Thanks

Hungry

Regarding you post about range, the 9mm carbines out there IMO have a range window of about 200m max (obviously 9mm will go further, as will anything, but 200m is about the range where the velocity/lethality/accuracy/trajectory tends to have a large drop off).  The Smith M/P you're posting about is a 223 caliber rifle/carbine, as opposed to the Ruger being a pistol caliber carbine.  Huge difference between the two, but there is a place for either, or even both.

One other option you might consider is the Beretta Storm pistol caliber carbines, especially if you have a 92F handgun, or plan to get one, as the magazines the Storm takes are Beretta handgun magazines (which can be found inexpensively). 

IMO if $ isn't a real decider between your 2 choices in the OP, get the AR platform .223 Smith rifle/carbine.  It'll be a bit more expensive to shoot, but you gain a lot of accuracy, range, lethality, and the piles and piles and piles of aftermarket things you can add/do to an AR platform rifle. 

FYI Reid Henrichs, the owner/instructor at Valor Ridge shooting school, has been running that same Smith M/P AR rifle for a year or two in many of his classes, both taking and teaching, and has a few K rounds through it, and it's run great for him (you can search his YT channel as he has a video about it specifically).  Be sure to budget for some extra magazines, ammunition, sling, and a mounted white light (very important on any rifle you plan on using for anything other than day time range plinking).

edit - Video in question about the M&P AR15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKlS6O_AgWw

[Hungry]

edit - Video in question about the M&P AR15

Gman, excellent info in the post and video, Thanks

What I'm fighting right now is the fact that my local has the PC9 carbine in store, the Sport II is uncertain on taking ownership, no-one seems to have them and wont quote or speculate on when. (even the 9mm ammo is almost out of stock) (smaller shop)

Hungry

[Shuffler]

I have an S&W MP Shield in .45 without a safety.   love it

My wife and both daughters carry SW 9s. They like it a lot.

[Maverick]

I'm a bit old school.  I like the carbine concept but for me if I am going to have a modern (20th century or later) rifle I want a rifle cartridge in it. The exception to that is the 1800's situation where you had a rifle and handgun in the same caliber / cartridge. For me that would be one of the 1894 Winchester copies in either 357 or 45 LC with a DA wheel gun to go with it. I'm not that big of a fan of the 9mm / 40 or even 45 acp carbines although I admit that they DO have a use but to me more in the LEO world than the civilian one. I'm not saying they should be restricted in any way, they just don't do it for me.

[Hungry]

I'm a bit old school.  I like the carbine concept but....

I really tried to do a Pros and Cons this am and I stalled at trying to find a good reason (pros) for the carbine over the AR.  Why did I want it ?  It dawned on me that where I started the carbine trail was at a website that (Gov Surplus) had the instructions for buying a real M1 carbine.  Love the look, love the wood, the history everything about it.  Didn't think I could get a "real" one so I tried to get the next best thing a modern carbine. 

Problem is a 9mm modern carbine was a great alternative but in reality the limitations were to many and the cost difference to an AR was not that great.  Probably would be a ton a fun at an outdoor range.  A higher caliber carbine gets expensive.

So moral of the story, I'm back to looking for a mid range AR, of the three sons who have AR's they have a Ruger, an IWI and a PSA

An S&W M&P Sport 2 would fit nicely into that bunch, unless I go off the deep end in these screwy times and think that something with more range than theirs's would be a better fit. lol.

Thanks for the advice folks, all AR alternatives in the $600. to $800. range are welcome (I think that's where it will fall)

Hungry

[CptTrips]

I have a Ruger Precision .22 for my plinking. Love it. SWFA scope.  Atlas bipod.


It's a trainer for my Ruger 6.5 Creedmoor (much cheaper to spend a day practicing with the .22 and then 10 rounds through the 6.5 ).
 


I have some land out of town I built a range on.  Can't wait for the weather to improve and get out there and punch some holes.

[Hungry]

I have a Ruger Precision .22 for my plinking. Love it. SWFA scope.  Atlas bipod.
(Image removed from quote.)

It's a trainer for my Ruger 6.5 Creedmoor (much cheaper to spend a day practicing with the .22 and then 10 rounds through the 6.5 ).
 
(Image removed from quote.)

I have some land out of town I built a range on.  Can't wait for the weather to improve and get out there and punch some holes.

(Image removed from quote.)

Wow nice, how far can you reach out and touch someone with the Creedmoor? $1600 to $2000 list price rifle according to the current prices on Ruger's web site?

PS Ruger keeps popping up, must be something to it

Hungry

[Hungry]

Lol, Long range on a budget, 1000 yards for less than a $1000. (granted its a 2017 video)

Lets get some Bolt Action!! Ruger American Predator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QUjRRr5JsA

Hungry

[CptTrips]

Wow nice, how far can you reach out and touch someone with the Creedmoor? $1600 to $2000 list price rifle according to the current prices on Ruger's web site?

PS Ruger keeps popping up, must be something to it

Hungry

It's "effective" range is dictated the range at which the round goes transonic.  As the round falls through the sonic speed it passes through a shock way that disturbs the trajectory.  You probability cone widens significantly past that. 

The 6.5 Creedmoor is a beautiful modern designed round.    Much superior ballistically to the .308.   Flatter shooting.  Faster travel time.  It goes transonic at around 1200-1400 yd.

With practice you can reliably hit a man sized target at 1000 yd.  You can certainly lob rounds beyond that, but it starts becoming sheer luck if you hit what you're aiming at.

It's a bucket list item for me to work my way up to 1000 yd.  There is a private club not too far from my land where I can shoot to 500 yd and after passing a qualification course, be allowed to shoot at the 1000 yd range.  But I've been distracted by real life over the last year and have gotten off track.  I'll like practicing again.

At 100 yd, my groups typically run ~0.6".  When I can consistently hit 0.5" I'll go back and start 500 yd at the club.




The nice thing about the precision .22 is it is design to replicate the ergonomics of the 6.5 CM as closely as possible to reinforce your muscle memory.  And because the .22 is much more effected by wind drift and drop, they say it equivalent of shoot 3x the distance with a center-fire.  So practicing with the .22 at my 175 rd target teaches a lot of the skills I need to hit at 500 yd with the CM.

I can't remember what I paid for the CM.  I think it was around $1200.  It has a reputation of matching precision rifles 2x to 3x it's price.  Yeah.  Ruger has been on a roll last couple of years with some really innovative designs.

[CptTrips]

Lol, Long range on a budget, 1000 yards for less than a $1000. (granted its a 2017 video)

Lets get some Bolt Action!! Ruger American Predator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QUjRRr5JsA

Hungry

The Predator is a very nice rifle for the price.  excellent value for the money.  I almost got that one, then the Precision hit the market.

I had an Ruger American .22 (shoots like a friggen laser!) with is a very similar design that got me hooked on the idea of precision shooting as opposed to just spraying bullets with an AK or AR. 

Precision shooting and reloading appeals more to my OCD. 

[Hungry]

It's "effective" range is dictated the range at which the round goes transonic.  As the round falls through the sonic speed it passes through a shock way that disturbs the trajectory.  You probability cone widens significantly past that. 

The 6.5 Creedmoor is a beautiful modern designed round.    Much superior ballistically to the .308.   Flatter shooting.  Faster travel time.  It goes transonic at around 1200-1400 yd.

With practice you can reliably hit a man sized target at 1000 yd.  You can certainly lob rounds beyond that, but it starts becoming sheer luck if you hit what you're aiming at.

It's a bucket list item for me to work my way up to 1000 yd.  There is a private club not too far from my land where I can shoot to 500 yd and after passing a qualification course, be allowed to shoot at the 1000 yd range.  But I've been distracted by real life over the last year and have gotten off track.  I'll like practicing again.

At 100 yd, my groups typically run ~0.6".  When I can consistently hit 0.5" I'll go back and start 500 yd at the club.

(Image removed from quote.)


The nice thing about the precision .22 is it is design to replicate the ergonomics of the 6.5 CM as closely as possible to reinforce your muscle memory.  And because the .22 is much more effected by wind drift and drop, they say it equivalent of shoot 3x the distance with a center-fire.  So practicing with the .22 at my 175 rd target teaches a lot of the skills I need to hit at 500 yd with the CM.

I can't remember what I paid for the CM.  I think it was around $1200.  It has a reputation of matching precision rifles 2x to 3x it's price.  Yeah.  Ruger has been on a roll last couple of years with some really innovative designs.

Nice Nice Nice!

In reality I'd probably be looking for something that can reliably hit targets just farther than the sons AR's if I were to go that way. 300 to 400 yards? I think the grandfathers 1960's Remington scoped 30-06 would have done it, dam I should have never sold it

Hungry

[CptTrips]

Nice Nice Nice!

In reality I'd probably be looking for something that can reliably hit targets just farther than the sons AR's if I were to go that way. 300 to 400 yards? I think the grandfathers 1960's Remington scoped 30-06 would have done it, dam I should have never sold it

Hungry

Out to 500 yd the .308 competes perfectly well with the Creedmoor.  If you don't want to reach out past that, I wouldn't shun a .308.  Many more available models.  Longer barrel life.  Cheaper ammo more available ammo.

A bit more kick but not bad with a muzzle brake.  Certainly not as bad as a 30-06.

Though a 30-06 is a good survival rifle to have in your safe. It can take down any game in the continental US from deer to elk to bear.  Cheap plentiful ammo. 

I've though about getting one.  Not really a precision rifle but certainly a useful utility rifle.

 


 

[icepac]

I found a .22 in my girl's lingerie drawer.   A present from her father. 
 
It had one in the chamber and the bizarre design will not let you eject the magazine without leaving one in the chamber unless you fire them all so I went outside (rural), cocked it, and pulled the trigger.     You can't cycle the slide without the magazine in it.     It sounded like a cap gun and the bullet traveled about 15 feet so I cycled it and none of the other rounds fired.

Took it apart and found burs and dents in the slide and frame so I filed them down smooth, cleaned it, and oiled it.

I think an old boyfriend beat it up a bit playing with it.  (not actually firing it.....just racking it)

After loading 8 new rounds in the 10 round magazine, I put up a target and it shot a 4 inch group at 15 yards without any malfunctions.   Then I cleaned it and oiled it again and wrapped it in a bag and ordered a second magazine.

It was actually the third handgun I've ever fired and the others were 20 years ago though I've shot plenty of rifles.
   
I was very impressed how it performed and the sights were dead on.

The Phoenix HP22 with the 5 inch barrel seems pretty accurate though it's hard to find ammo of the fps that phoenix recommended so I got some federal ammo quite a bit hotter since anyone complaining about cracks had shot thousands of hot rounds.    I only intend to fire it when needed so I doubt it will be experiencing cracks.

Was just about to buy a walther PPKs but don't feel the need now.   

A .22 pistol is much more a firearm than I expected and I think the 5 inch barrel really wakes up this one.

Now her father has offered a bunch of his non-functional rifles and handguns to me.     

Hoping for a free 30:06 or .243 since I have experience with them.

[CptTrips]

I found a .22 in my girl's lingerie drawer.   A present from her father. 

I have a Ruger SR22 for plinking/practice.   LOVE IT!



Browing Buck Mark  (amazing what 2 extra inches does for accuracy  )


Sprinfield XDS 9mm for protection


Springfield XD-M .45 for serious pest removal


Added the pistol range this winter so ready to get some practice!