Flight Stick Recommendation?

[skillet83]

The Mk.II is now available. Last week when looking at them, said out of stock. Gave me an option to add my email, would let me know when available. I ordered the T16000, then 2 days later VKB emailed saying now available. Takes just under a week to receive, should have mine in on Tuesday.
The T16000 solved my problems with in game play anyway. I sincerely think I got a defective stick with logitech. Never had a problem in almost 20 years here with any stick. The T16000, does not feel great in my hand, takes a lot of movement to get reaction from plane. Deadband set to zero, scales are high. My old logitech was precise, not much stick movement needed for plane to react. Still looking forward to the VKB.
Skillet

[skillet83]

  Have been using the VKB a few days now. I love the feel and the motion. Takes very little movement, very precise and fluid, does not jump around. Only problem is the actual stick itself. You guys that fly with vkb, do they have a more conventional stick? Hat switch on the top and not offset to the left side? Top rear at a 45? Are the easy to swap?

[Drano]

Not sure I follow you. Which stick are you using? The only "basic" grip they have is the KG12 Luftwaffe grip. It only has a single hat on it.

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[skillet83]

I am using the Gladiator Mk.II, comes with the KG12 WWII grip. Hat switch is on the left side of stick. The placement of hat switch is odd for me. I could use my thumb to work hat switch for look forward up, then bounce over to a button directly to the right for the look up feature when in a tight turn fight. With this grip, have to use a button on the base for the look up. Now my left hand is working that button and throttle. Sucks. There is a button on the very top of stick, just does not work for me.
A dang shame, this stick feels so good, flys so well.

[Drano]

I have the MCG-Pro grip on the gunfighter base. So many buttons and hats you won't know what to do with em.

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[SpinDoc1]

So I had never even heard of all these different joystick/peripherals manufacturers...now you've got me oogling every product under the sun (sigh) 

[puller]

The gladiator mkII is in my future paired with the Tomcat grip

Thanks fed for sending me free money

[Vinkman]

The TM Warthog is "ok", but I have 4 of the WH sticks and 3 throttles, and 3 of the 4 sticks have exhibited the common "sticktion" failure, and required disassembly, replacement of the "ring", and regreasing with a superior product than what they use at the TM factory.  While a PITA, it isn't costly, the ring "guy" is still sending out the replacement large o-rings (more of a teflon ring), and the grease is cheap.  After that, the TM gimbal is "decent", but still no Virpil or VKB gimbal.  Again, the TM "stick" part of the stick is IMO the best option out there still as it's all metal, and the buttons and hats are very tough.

Can you clarify the 'sticktion failure'?   I have a warthog stick and from the factory it exhibits "Sticktion" and high string efforts. Sticktion being defined by me as require more force to get the stick moving then required to keep it moving. This makes it difficult to move smoothly during small movements. I have experimented with make shift 5" extension and have now ordered one online, but the extension is expensive.  Feel it's something TM should offer at mass production prices.  Everything else about the stick is fantastic, but this is a significant drawback and requires more money and time with non-production aftermarket vendors to get the feel right.

[Gman]

Can you clarify the 'sticktion failure'?   I have a warthog stick and from the factory it exhibits "Sticktion" and high string efforts. Sticktion being defined by me as require more force to get the stick moving then required to keep it moving. This makes it difficult to move smoothly during small movements. I have experimented with make shift 5" extension and have now ordered one online, but the extension is expensive.  Feel it's something TM should offer at mass production prices.  Everything else about the stick is fantastic, but this is a significant drawback and requires more money and time with non-production aftermarket vendors to get the feel right.

That definetly qualifies as sticktion IMO, your stick needing a lot of push to get out of center.   "Sticktion" can be several things in the WH, from the stick not returning to center, or at least returning VERY slowly, to a general "crunchy" sort of feel and inaccuracy around the center - the poorly made gimbal from Thrustmaster can fail in several ways, and cause several issues.

Taking it apart, removing the factory grease, sanding down (gently) the molding lines especially (give everything a very, very light sanding IMO), then re grease with Nyogel 767a grease, or something similar (Nyogel 767a does work the best though).  If the Oring is wonky, damaged, etc, order a replacement one from the various simmers who sell them online (I can PM you those I know if you want).  Yours being newish the O ring should probably be okay, so take care of it if you disassemble and re grease and sand a bit.

Doing this can get you a couple/few years of really good Warthog movement and performance.  It's so ridiculous to me that they haven't replaced their oring with the one that everyone replaces the factory one with, plus use better grease at the factory.  It is what it is.

[Drano]

The VKB Gunfighter base has adjustable clutches on each axis so you can adjust it to be as sticky as you might like to the point where it's actually hard to move at all. I've read helo guys like it tightened up so the stick stays in a certain position. This way you can do that if you want. I actually removed my clutches when I upgraded to the gunfighter 3 control board. I don't want any resistance at all other than the springs and cams which are super smooth.

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[Gman]

StreakEagle, I like your style.  All of my VKB stuff save one Mk2/Rev B Gunfighter is at our other place, and once the Covid thing is over I'm going to assemble my entire hotas collection together for some pics.  I'll take some of what I have here maybe later tonight, a bunch of our TM/CH/Virpil/VKB stuff, about 25 different pieces or so I think, not counting all the pedals - I only have one set of my VKB peds with me at our home in Sask in Central Canada. 

Anyhow, I have all of the Virpil sticks with me save the Alphas, which are incoming to me shortly (I hope, some pre order guys have gotten theirs very recently).  I too fly a lot of micro to mid size helos, I'm going to buy some of the new gen Blade stuff that's out now, they have 3 or 4 I went to pick up, the new 150, mCPX, the 270, and maybe the 330.  The quadcopter in this pic was one of if not THE first quad that was avaialbe as a retail unit for sale.  It's completely hands on flying, no assists/gyros, nothing.  Still a good little unit, and now 8+ years after it came out, it's still running 100% on all original parts.

The Virpil sticks I've had great luck with too, no issues at all, and they all have their positive and negative points.  So far I've been really happy with their performance.  Also, all the Virpil bases have worked very well with both my Cougar and my Warthog sticks.  As stated, I still feel that a Virpil Warbrd base with either a Cougar or Warthog metal stick, is the best bang for the buck, for someone wanting a very solid custom stick solution.  I'll take some pics later of its base unit set up with both of these stick options, and compare its height to the VKB Gunfighter, CH Fighter/Combat sticks, TM Warthog and Cougar, and maybe some Saitek stuff.

Virpil F14/VFX, TM Hornet, TM Cougar, Virpil Delta, Virpil WarBRD/PewPewPew, TM Warthog, Virpil T50CM (first gen, I have a T50CM2 stick as well).

[Vinkman]

That definetly qualifies as sticktion IMO, your stick needing a lot of push to get out of center.   "Sticktion" can be several things in the WH, from the stick not returning to center, or at least returning VERY slowly, to a general "crunchy" sort of feel and inaccuracy around the center - the poorly made gimbal from Thrustmaster can fail in several ways, and cause several issues.

Taking it apart, removing the factory grease, sanding down (gently) the molding lines especially (give everything a very, very light sanding IMO), then re grease with Nyogel 767a grease, or something similar (Nyogel 767a does work the best though).  If the Oring is wonky, damaged, etc, order a replacement one from the various simmers who sell them online (I can PM you those I know if you want).  Yours being newish the O ring should probably be okay, so take care of it if you disassemble and re grease and sand a bit.

Doing this can get you a couple/few years of really good Warthog movement and performance.  It's so ridiculous to me that they haven't replaced their oring with the one that everyone replaces the factory one with, plus use better grease at the factory.  It is what it is.

I purchased a 10cm extension from Sahaj and that's done the trick. Lowered the effort through doubling mechanical advantage and with twice the Travel, precision and control are greatly improved.  I am impressed with the quality of the Sahaj extension. It's nicely machined, and black anodized. The internal wire pumper is also nicely made. Took 30 sec to install it. Love it. It's not cheap unfortunately at 60 eros plus shipping. It comes from Poland but ships quickly. Mine arrived in 4 days. 

[Slate]

  I just received the TM warthog stick and going from an old worn out CH combat stick was quite a change. There is considerably more effort to move the TM but it is very fluid and accurate.   Nice Metal stick with plenty of buttons, again big difference over the plastic feel.
   I may try some dustless silicone to prevent "sticktion" though I have noticed none with a new stick
  Question, having not flown a real plane, what effort was needed to move the stick in a WW2 fighter? I have heard the 109 was tiring flying in dogfights.

[ULPink]

If you have the money, VKB Gunfighter 3 Stick base is fantastic, especially with an extension (a 20 cm curved extension comes with "Pro" or "Premium" options). You can swap cams and springs to get the feel you want. I have every compatible grip, which includes the Thrustmaster Warthog and Hornet grips with VKB adapters installed in place of their normal base connector.

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product_cat=vkb-joysticks-and-rudders

The most capable grip in terms of buttons, triggers, and analog axes is the Modern Combat Grip (MCG) Pro. It is styled and arranged similar to Russian fighter jets, which is great for flying the MiG-21bis, MiG-29, Su-27, and Su-33 in DCS. But I find the control arrangement a little awkward/uncomfortable. The grip itself is also a little smaller than what feels comfortable to me, but is does have a "checkered diamond" texture on the side. The vast number of hats, buttons, switches, and analog axes make this grip the best choice if you want to map as much as possible to your grip.

If you prefer the shape, feel, and arrangement of US style grips, the Space Combat Grip (SCG) Pro is a better option. It is somewhere between the Warthog and Hornet grips in control arrangement. Compared to the MCG Pro, it swaps the brake lever for a twist rudder axis, loses a couple of fire buttons, and loses the right side hat for a single button (the analog joystick hat can be swapped out with a regular hat switch or programmed to act like a hat switch), which is still able to fully support US fighter grips button maps like the Warthog and Hornet grips. The grip itself is larger and shaped more like a pistol grip with finger grooves and some texturing, which is very comfortable. I miss having the side hat available for extra button mapping, but otherwise like this grip a lot better for me than the MCG Pro when I am not flying Russian jet fighters.

For WW2 Luftwaffe fans, there is the KG-12 grip which is a reasonable facsimile for the standard shape/size grip for German fighters. But if you want a useful number of buttons and hats, this I is not the grip for you. The hat switch that looks like a fire button doesn't even have a center press function unlike all of the hats on the MCG and SCG grips. It also lacks any kind of texture unlike the real KG series grips. The flip down trigger/safety is nifty, though it doesn't have a switch to sense when it is flipped up or down (unlike the MCG Pro). I like using it when flying the Bf109 and Fw190s in VR. There is nothing better than seeing and feeling the same shape/control arrangement, especially if the stick controls are animated so you see them move when you press them.

The grips below are (from left to right): VKB SCG Premium, VKB MCG Pro, VKB F-14, TM Warthog, TM Hornet, VKB KG-12
(Image removed from quote.)

Wow, I wish I could afford those!

[Drano]

I only have the one grip but that VKB is the best stick ever.

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