Trees at the end of the runway

[FESS67]

>====|<When I was flight instructing regularly one on the scenarios I would set up is to draw a runway with a tree close to the end of the runway. I would then draw a airplane on the other end of the runway and ask the student how he would take off to avoid the tree? Well the simple answer is taxi to the end of the runway with the tree and takeoff the other direction in a no wind condition. Amazing how many students didn't think like that.

Surely the simple answer is to chop the tree down?

I would love to see some of you guys get involved in root cause analysis.  You are all into your flying so let's take the scenario that several aircraft have crashed into trees at the end of the runway.  I say several because many players have experienced this issue.

From this thread, the possible root causes:

• Tree at end of runway is in flight path
• Pilot skill - unable to get aircraft up in time
• Pilot error - Incorrect choice of runway

I am sure we can come up with more if we want to but these are cited in the thread.

Solutions:

• Remove trees from end of runway
• Train pilots to increase flying skill
• Train pilots to make better runway choices

Now, which of these solutions will 100% remove the problem?

[Spikes]

• Remove trees from end of runway
• Train pilots to increase flying skill
• Train pilots to make better runway choices

Now, which of these solutions will 100% remove the problem?

All 3 would 100% remove the problem if implemented correctly.

Perhaps next time we can make terrains completely flat with no trees so no one hits trees or hills.

[Arlo]

You are all into your flying so let's take the scenario that several aircraft have crashed into trees at the end of the runway.  I say several because many players have experienced this issue.

Several? Could you name more than three? Two? Where do you get your information? From the 'we don't play the game, we just post' squadron?

• Remove trees from end of runway
• Train pilots to increase flying skill
• Train pilots to make better runway choices

Now, which of these solutions will 100% remove the problem?

Which one of us do you presume can remove the trees? Why would we not resort to the other two options if we cannot accomplish the first?

[FESS67]

All 3 would 100% remove the problem if implemented correctly.

Perhaps next time we can make terrains completely flat with no trees so no one hits trees or hills.

Wrong.  Training people has never eliminated problems, it is a mitigation but never a pure error proof approach

[Shuffler]

Lots of trees at the end of the runway.... how many miles out do you clear them before you decide to train the pilot?

[FESS67]

Lots of trees at the end of the runway.... how many miles out do you clear them before you decide to train the pilot?

Well that is an interesting question.  Let's allow for the most basic level of ability during take off.  That would be auto pilot.

How far do you think the trees should be cleared for autopilot to be able to effect a successful take off?

[LCADolby]

Leaving the autoTOpilot in charge of your perkpoints is brave.. infact most brave.
To be honest with the flight experience gained to get the perks for a B29 I would have thought that people would have stopped using/relying on it, mouse users the exception.

[haggerty]

Lots of trees at the end of the runway.... how many miles out do you clear them before you decide to train the pilot?

Atleast 100ft

[Hotstuff]

Atleast 100ft

And get a new CE commander

[Copprhed]

The solution is leave the game and the fields alone and let those who are capable of logical thought processes figure out how to select a proper field and runway for the plane they choose to fly. Quit trying to force HiTech to do your bidding, a highly unlikely event. It gets old having some people just push for ridiculous things in order to gain some form of personal acknowledgment.

[Hotstuff]

The solution is leave the game and the fields alone and let those who are capable of logical thought processes figure out how to select a proper field and runway for the plane they choose to fly. Quit trying to force HiTech to do your bidding, a highly unlikely event. It gets old having some people just push for ridiculous things in order to gain some form of personal acknowledgment.

Not wanting trees at the end of the runway is a ridiculous request or feedback? LOL

[Arlo]

Not wanting trees at the end of the runway is a ridiculous request or feedback? LOL

Well, think about this. Player A runs his B-29s into trees and loses a backside-load worth of perks so he starts a thread about how this was HT's fault and this is why players are leaving the game in droves (this was after he already quit). This inspires player B to look for runways with trees near them on all maps now and demand tree removal (without even testing the runway to see if the trees actually present a problem).

(See where I'm going with this?)

[Arlo]

Wrong.  Training people has never eliminated problems, it is a mitigation but never a pure error proof approach

Well, then we should all give up on the new players that can't even take off at all, trees or not.

[Puma44]

Surely the simple answer is to chop the tree down?

I would love to see some of you guys get involved in root cause analysis.  You are all into your flying so let's take the scenario that several aircraft have crashed into trees at the end of the runway.  I say several because many players have experienced this issue.

From this thread, the possible root causes:

Going back to the only real root cause of this thread, it’s one guy who can ONLY keep about taking off a heavy bomber into trees instead of taking off in the opposite direction here in cartoon land. Talk about simple. ALL he had to do for a solution to his problem is push a button for the opposite direction and takeoff with absolutely nothing in his flight path, other than a clue, possibly.  Instead, he started this nine page thread that continues to beat the dead horse. 

Lots of trees at the end of the runway.... how many miles out do you clear them before you decide to train the pilot?

Or, grab him by the shoulders, spin him around 180 degrees, and tell him to “go this direction”.

[Hotstuff]

Well, think about this. Player A runs his B-29s into trees and loses a backside-load worth of perks so he starts a thread about how this was HT's fault and this is why players are leaving the game in droves (this was after he already quit). This inspires player B to look for runways with trees near them on all maps now and demand tree removal (without even testing the runway to see if the trees actually present a problem).

(See where I'm going with this?)

Trees at the end of a runway are wrong and you are wrong. It's not even about taking off, landing wounded birds also have difficulty with trees at the end of the runway. Hell, it is annoying even for a regular bird to establish a normal glideslope at airfields like these. We don't have airfield notices that detail the hazards of each runway like you would in real life. So what, you need to do a site survey every time you want to take off in this game?  Who even goes through a briefing before every sortie? In a game where friendly collisions are turned off you are expected to know that there is an obstruction at the end of what appears to be a large, improved airfield? It just doesn't make sense.

In addition to this, on the A82 runway as mentioned earlier in this thread, if you set Ground Detail Range to about <0.7, or to the minimum of 0.5, you can't see the trees in a B-29 at startup. Also, I think I have the default B-29 first person view, but it is not immediately obvious that the trees are an obstruction at the end of the runway. With these two factors, how is one to be at fault for "should have known there were trees at the end of the runway there"?

I don't expect it to be fixed instantly and people in the meantime need to plan around it (if they are aware of it, hopefully), but if people get s*** on for pointing out such a ridiculous thing, then why even provide feedback at all? If the issue can't even be acknowledged then yes, why continue playing this game when this is just one frustration out of many? And if player feedback isn't welcome, then perhaps start a sticky to warn everyone to not even bother.