Author Topic: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer  (Read 13006 times)

Offline Shuffler

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #150 on: June 08, 2020, 07:36:54 PM »
HT was kindly flexible on 99% of what I did with terrains over the 4 I created. The last one fjordma, 98% of the airfields are 18 miles apart. The goal was sooner, and people liked the sooner. Even the sooner I added in to the GV game along with the drastic lesser amount of trees was liked.

"Sooner" is what the customers liked from my experiments with AH3 terrains. "Later" no longer keeps them in the game like it did around 2006. "Now" there are too many sooner options aside from AH.

Why don't you try your hand at something to see if you can crack this nut? My experiments showed sooner is one key to cracking it. Maybe you can find another to help widen the cracks.

We do MNM. That is completely cracked if you like quick n dirty.

Main Arena will never be the insta pop that some of the young folks look for in today's games. Here part of the fun is getting there. That is if you have any friends.
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Offline perdue3

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #151 on: June 09, 2020, 12:05:28 AM »
I couldn't play with my friends the other night because of the six hour timer.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #152 on: June 09, 2020, 02:14:48 AM »
I couldn't play with my friends the other night because of the six hour timer.
They did not want to switch sides to fly?
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Offline TWCAxew

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #153 on: June 09, 2020, 04:38:08 AM »

Is there anything that has still not been said about it?

Fire away.

Not sure. But other topics belong in other threads. This one should not be locked because of it..
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Offline Spikes

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #154 on: June 09, 2020, 07:33:24 AM »
I couldn't play with my friends the other night because of the six hour timer.
:(
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #155 on: June 09, 2020, 11:22:20 AM »
Main Arena will never be the insta pop that some of the young folks look for in today's games. Here part of the fun is getting there. That is if you have any friends.

I think you are right, but I wonder if you realize how much that is a core of the problem for HTC.

I think to a large part the Melee has become an old-dude-chat-room.  Worse, its a fairly insular old-dude-chat-room composed of mostly the same guys who have known each other for 25 years.

I think a lot of the guys still here have adapted to the conditions like boiling frogs.  They launch and put on auto-pilot and yuck it up with their buddies on private squad channel or have a purse fight on chan200.  Occasionally they run across a fight and have a little bit of dogfighting, or chasing, die, take off, back on auto-pilot and continue their conversation.  That's great fun I bet for some.  They have adapted to the realities of the Melee in 2020.  If it works for them, awesome.  I can tell you it is a way different experience than it was in 2002-2004.

However think of it from a new guys perspective.  Assuming they figure out how to get off the runway, (I know..big if, but let's assume BEST case scenario), so they fly around 15 min or so trying to find some action.  All around them they just see players on auto-pilot.  They are not on their private yuck channels.  They are not on chan200 (thank COD), but to them, this just seems like an eternal auto-pilot simulator.

Most of them are probably not retired.  The probably have a wife and kids and maybe they get a hour to fly one or two nights a week.  If it take 15min from tower to a fight, assuming they don't have to chase someone, they might be lucky to get 4 good fights in their hour (of course as noobs they'll get isntantly slaughtered).  Meanwhile their wife is pointing out that game costs more than their Netflix and points out he spends the majority of his time staring a the map on auto-pilot.

I know neither of us have the stats, but I'd be curious how many truly new players,  not previous recycled players returning, not retreads from AW, or Warbirds, or WWIIOL who know Hitech, but completely new converts, does AH add per year that keep an account longer than 3 months. 

  I know there are a lot of factors HTC is having to fight to keep their chin above the tide, but I suspect pacing and cadence of action in the Melee (the primary product) is killing them when trying to earn new business.  Even if it still makes a great chat room for the guys who have been here since 1999.


3 hour timer...why not.  Anything that increases fluidity in the game is worth trying.  It's an arena config.  30 sec to change or change back if it doesn't work well. Give it a try for a week.

$0.02.




 





« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 11:24:07 AM by CptTrips »
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Offline Arlo

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #156 on: June 09, 2020, 11:33:34 AM »
Whoa, Trips .... you may be on to something here. Dale should advertise in the AARP magazine and on TVland, METV and INSP.

"Aces High. If you're not only into classic World War II warbirds and flight sims but into meeting other old farts that like beer and crude jokes while climbing on auto-pilot then this is the game for you. This month's special - 10% off coupon for Preparation H suppositories with account purchase."


Offline Shuffler

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #157 on: June 09, 2020, 11:33:40 AM »
I am an "old dude".

 :old:   :D
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 11:35:12 AM by Shuffler »
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Offline Wiley

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #158 on: June 09, 2020, 11:54:05 AM »
  I know there are a lot of factors HTC is having to fight to keep their chin above the tide, but I suspect pacing and cadence of action in the Melee (the primary product) is killing them when trying to earn new business.  Even if it still makes a great chat room for the guys who have been here since 1999.

As I've said multiple times in the past it's a niche within a niche.  It's not a popular style of gameplay, but it's gameplay that's not available anywhere else.  Long range bombing/interception for example.

Quote
3 hour timer...why not.  Anything that increases fluidity in the game is worth trying.  It's an arena config.  30 sec to change or change back if it doesn't work well. Give it a try for a week.

$0.02.

3 hours may as well be 12 for most people.  I don't think that many people play for longer than that at a time, particularly the people who want to change for numbers.

Wiley.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #159 on: June 09, 2020, 12:16:20 PM »
As I've said multiple times in the past it's a niche within a niche.  It's not a popular style of gameplay, but it's gameplay that's not available anywhere else.  Long range bombing/interception for example.

A niche within a niche within a niche is fine as long as you can maintain that niche sufficiently to fund new development and hopefully keep growing slightly. 
And you have to analyze what is the true niche you are serving.  Are long boring flights the true product you are selling?  Or is that an accidental side-effect of a design decision.  Are the ways to minimize the parts that are turning off potential customers while maintain the true core experience.  Can you make compromises to satisfy both?
Unless you prefer trying login one day and HTC just not being here rather than seeing anything change ever.  Buggy whips were a niche.


3 hours may as well be 12 for most people.  I don't think that many people play for longer than that at a time, particularly the people who want to change for numbers.

Maybe.  It's an arena an variable.   Experiment. 

In BF you can switch any time you want as long as that switch wouldn't unbalance the teams by x amount.  X is server configurable I think. So you can always switch to a lower number team instantly with no limit.  Though you can get stuck somewhere if there are no more available slots on the other side.  But that seems reasonable.  You can see why.  If you saw a low side team but couldn't switch just because some arbitrary timer hadn't expired, that would be more annoying.

So maybe count based instead of time based.  Now the switching to get points before a win is a different variable if I'm not mistaken.  I get that.



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Offline 100Coogn

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #160 on: June 09, 2020, 12:35:47 PM »
See rule #4
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 01:00:14 PM by hitech »
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Offline Wiley

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #161 on: June 09, 2020, 01:49:11 PM »
And you have to analyze what is the true niche you are serving.  Are long boring flights the true product you are selling?  Or is that an accidental side-effect of a design decision.

I'd say a little from column A, a little from column B.  I don't know of another game that allows relatively long term strategic bombing and interception patrol like this one.

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Are the ways to minimize the parts that are turning off potential customers while maintain the true core experience.  Can you make compromises to satisfy both?

IMO, not beyond a certain point.  The tighter base placements on the more recent maps seem to be well received, which cuts down on climbout time.

OTOH, As an example, adding airstarts something like the spawn in for GVs would be horrible gameplay IMO.

Adding other modes to give people the quick fix would seem to me the way to go, but it may as well be a separate game, as it would have nothing to do with the MA.

When you want to drive a buggy and a horse, a gallon of gas isn't going to do you much good.

Quote
Maybe.  It's an arena an variable.   Experiment. 

In BF you can switch any time you want as long as that switch wouldn't unbalance the teams by x amount.  X is server configurable I think. So you can always switch to a lower number team instantly with no limit.  Though you can get stuck somewhere if there are no more available slots on the other side.  But that seems reasonable.  You can see why.  If you saw a low side team but couldn't switch just because some arbitrary timer hadn't expired, that would be more annoying.

So maybe count based instead of time based.  Now the switching to get points before a win is a different variable if I'm not mistaken.  I get that.

At the end of the day, Spiez and HT feels fast number swings get worse with a shorter timer.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

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Offline 100Coogn

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #162 on: June 09, 2020, 01:53:13 PM »
My apologies HiTech, if I may have touched a nerve.

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From Wiley: If you're hitting them after they drop, that's not defense, that is revenge.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #163 on: June 09, 2020, 02:07:10 PM »
When you want to drive a buggy and a horse, a gallon of gas isn't going to do you much good.

When you go to the barn one day to hitch up your carriage for a ride, and your horse is lying dead of the barn floor, your buggy whip won't do you much good either.  ;)

We were a nitch back in 2002, but I can tell you the gameplay experience felt very different.  You can't dismiss every problem with gameplay as "well....we're a nitch."  That seems like lazy thinking to me. 

What are the things that can be done?  Well.... that's a long complex discussion.  :cool:


3 hour side switch timer!  Scratch that.....
Side switch limit based on team count not clock hands!







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Offline Wiley

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Re: 3 Hour Side Switch Timer
« Reply #164 on: June 09, 2020, 02:14:59 PM »
We were a nitch back in 2002, but I can tell you the gameplay experience felt very different.  You can't dismiss every problem with gameplay as "well....we're a nitch."  That seems like lazy thinking to me. 

Chess is a niche.  You don't see people campaigning to add/remove pieces or change the board dimensions and get rid of the old game.

You've got it right, if he's going to do anything he should just freeze AH3 and create a new game with the gameplay pretty much being redone from the ground up.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11