AI bomber formations in FSO

[Nefarious]

Would you be for or against using AI bomber formations seen in the Fortress Europe Missions in FSO?

My idea would see AI bomber formations (bombers only) in the FSO environment, especially events that call for heavy or medium bombers. This would be especially helpful for unpopular bomber roles like the Betty, He 111, and B-25C.

Please let me know below.

[whiteman]

Willing to give it a try.

[JoeCool]

Interesting but how would a CIC control the route or would that be possible?

 

[CptTrips]

Interesting but how would a CIC control the route or would that be possible?

 

Not dynamically, but command could have a menu of missions to choose from, and decide when and in what order to run each.

But once started, it would have to run it's defined course.

[Nefarious]

Interesting but how would a CIC control the route or would that be possible?

 

Not dynamically, but command could have a menu of missions to choose from, and decide when and in what order to run each.

But once started, it would have to run it's defined course.

Trips is right, There is no "controlling" the formation. Only setting a specific path.

In FSO we could do it one of two ways.

1) The Admin CM (me) could make and set the path, making it different every frame.
2) The CIC could create the path, and I would create the mission to their specifications.

In its first running, I would go with option 1. Just because FSO orders seem to run late, and time constraints on my end may cause issues.

[Devil 505]

I am very much not in favor of AI bombers. Their defensive fire is much too strong.

[Nefarious]

I am very much not in favor of AI bombers. Their defensive fire is much too strong.

Currently it is set "randomly" in formations, it could be dialed back even more.

I put randomly in quotations, because it's not really a random setting, it's just that some bombers are better than others in our current formations, but none are maxed out. If I remember correctly, and Trips would know... Our bombers are medium to low for lethality.

[CptTrips]

I am very much not in favor of AI bombers. Their defensive fire is much too strong.

It never seemed that way to me from escorting them in the Fortress Europe missions. 

To some extent, the concentration of AI defensive fire can be adjusted in the mission definition. 

Is that your only concern?

[Wiley]

What happens when the bombers get to target?  Are they surgical with their bomb drops?  Do they just drop in the middle of the runway?

The only downside I can see is you can't pressure an AI as it's about to drop, or distract it from being in the bombsight to gun.  Its gunnery will also be more consistent across the board than people.

I kind of like the idea of having more fighters in the air though.  On the other hand, the few missions I've run against AI bombers they chewed the heck out of me in a couple passes.

I'm not vehemently opposed to it, just curious how the details would work out.

Wiley.

[perdue3]

I am 100% against AI anything. I understand its utility, but we do not need it in any capacity.

[SlipKnt]

I think it would be worth an "experiment" with feedback through the process.  Then decide if it is something worth adding in 2021 designs.   

[JoeCool]

I guess controlling was the wrong word to use. What I meant was would it be possible to send the CM way points for a route they wanted the AI formation to follow?

 

[Nefarious]

What happens when the bombers get to target?  Are they surgical with their bomb drops?  Do they just drop in the middle of the runway?

The only downside I can see is you can't pressure an AI as it's about to drop, or distract it from being in the bombsight to gun.  Its gunnery will also be more consistent across the board than people.

I kind of like the idea of having more fighters in the air though.  On the other hand, the few missions I've run against AI bombers they chewed the heck out of me in a couple passes.

I'm not vehemently opposed to it, just curious how the details would work out.

Wiley.

The bombers operate more like carpet bombers than pin-point smart bombers. I select a point on the map and they drop their bombs. Because of their formation, the bombs fall generally in the same pattern, so I'm not quite sure they even use a bomb sight like humans do.

In the last mission, the AI destroyed 29 objects, While Human bombers destroyed 47. The total object count at the target was 124 objects at the troop strat target.

[CptTrips]

I guess controlling was the wrong word to use. What I meant was would it be possible to send the CM way points for a route they wanted the AI formation to follow?

 

I understood what you meant.   

Think of the mission as a predefined set of waypoints with a target speed and alt and behavior associated with each transit to that waypoint. 

Once you kick it off, the AI are going to follow those waypoints at the specified alt and speed and drop where you tell them. 

Before it can be uploaded and run, it has to be "compiled" and after that can't be modified without recompiling and re-uploading a new one. 

So, because it must be compiled by an offline tool, it's really not feasible to define one on the fly in arena or alter one after it's been uploaded to the server.

[JoeCool]

it's really not feasible to define one on the fly in arena or alter one after it's been uploaded to the server.

Yeah it would be a no change, no matter what, in the orders once sent to a CM.

The bombers operate more like carpet bombers than pin-point smart bombers.

Also good to know