Is this graphic acceptable in AH?

[oboe]

I'll be moving toward updating my P-38Ls next, and wanted to ask about historical accuracy vs revisionism with regard to "Itsy Bitsy II", a P-38L from the 49th FG:



This skin displays a hand with middle finger extended - however the palm of the hand is facing toward the viewer, so it is not the vulgar hand sign most of us are familiar with, but rather a salute for members of the USAAF's "Royal Order of the Rigid Digit".    This is apparently a USAAF-thing that is akin to the RAF's "Finger Trouble" and refers to pilots who screw up.

Anyway, back when this skin was originally released, Skuzzy rejected it on account of the hand sign and suggested that I change it, which I did, to an index finger pointing skyward.

So, as I do my update for this skin, is it OK if I include the original, historically-accurate hand graphic?   Or do you think we need to stay with the incorrect, but certainly less- misunderstood graphic of an extended index finger?   Personally, I'd rather be historically accurate and not make a big deal out of it.  I don't think the graphic is very much visible on an AH skin to anyone but the pilot doing an external view walkaround on the ground.   And while not as famous as "Putt Putt Maru", "Marge", or "Pudgy", this is not an obscure aircraft - Trumpeter has a fine 1/32 scale model kit based on it.   

Thanks!
   

[lyric1]

I have an additional nose art image. Will post it when i get off work.

[800nate800]

we literally have the Dragon and His tail B-24 lol, this is daily talk

[Vraciu]

If naked women are okay I think the bird will fly.

 

[Devil 505]

I don't see the problem with extending foreign relations. 

[lyric1]

I have an additional nose art image. Will post it when i get off work.

[Greebo]

As regards nose art in general HTC are mainly concerned with anything that would threaten their ESRB age and content rating. For instance I have seen RL photos of nose art on USAAF aircraft that would be considered offensively racist today. Skuzzy also made me paint a costume on a P-47M's full frontal nude nose art for the same reason, God forbid that I could have introduced nudity to the internet.....

Personally I can't see anything offensive about the finger nose art but then I am not American and maybe that gesture means more to people across the Pond. Can anyone see how a player might be offended by it strongly enough to complain to HTC or the ESRB?

[oboe]

In the U.S. it seems, there is always someone willing to complain about virtually anything.  Vaccines, Harry Potter books in schools,  you name it and there is a group of people somewhere in the U.S. against it.   I also note the source of the complaint is often rooted in misinformation.  True story, an adult woman approached my wife and I at a farmer's market last summer and wanted us to sign a petition supporting the recall of Colorado's governor because he was supposedly "instituting a public school curriculum teaching kindergarten children how to use fruits and vegetables as sex toys."  This woman wasn't involved with public education; she proudly told us she home-schooled her children.   

Any complaints about this hand gesture would also be rooted in a misunderstanding, as this not the "Eff You" gesture - that sign is given with the middle finger extended and the BACK of the hand facing your target.   The aircraft's graphic has the palm facing out.

I once ran across a definition of the traditional hand gesture in an amateur seaman's reference/guidebook and never forgot how they defined it, because I found it so amusing.   They said it means, "I understand your request, but have no intention of complying with it."

Thanks for posting the photos lyric.   I believe I read somewhere Laven scored the last P-38 kill of the War, but I'd have to find that again.  I think it was in an Osprey book.

[Vraciu]

(Image removed from quote.)

I would love to know the inside joke listing a Colonel as the assistant to the Crew Chief.   

[oboe]

Good catch, Vraciu.  Laven seems to have been something of a wild card.   

When I was originally researching "Itsy Bitsy II", I was in contact with a relative of his on WWII-Aircraft.net, or someplace like that.  I recall he told me that his nickname among the family was "Butz", and that he had wrecked an expensive new sports car, and also IIRC that he had an unofficial missile kill of a MiG or Sukhoi in Middle East, while working as a representative for one of the US aircraft manufacturers.   He had finagled some stick time, I can't recall the circumstances, and ended up in an engagement and got a kill.  All unofficial and unsubstantiated, of course.     

EDIT:

Here's a great link to photos of models of all the aircraft George Laven flew in his Air Force career - he had a penchant for colorful paint jobs.  It also backs up the claims I have heard about him, and at the end his nephew posts some interesting tidbits.   
 
https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/the-notable-aircraft-of-george-e-laven-jr.51745/

I can about imagine what "Butz" would say about me having to revise art work to make it more acceptable, but clearly it wouldn't be the first time.  His F-104 Starfighter was so colorfully painted it was even named "Really George?".   Apparently USAF brass were so unhappy with it they forced him to tone it down.

[Greebo]

Well if its not an offensive gesture then I don't see a problem. So I'll pass the skin with the nose art unaltered.

[Volron]

Well if its not an offensive gesture then I don't see a problem. So I'll pass the skin with the nose art unaltered.

Should probably double-check with hitech, just to have all bases covered.

[lyric1]

Good catch, Vraciu.  Laven seems to have been something of a wild card.   

When I was originally researching "Itsy Bitsy II", I was in contact with a relative of his on WWII-Aircraft.net, or someplace like that.  I recall he told me that his nickname among the family was "Butz", and that he had wrecked an expensive new sports car, and also IIRC that he had an unofficial missile kill of a MiG or Sukhoi in Middle East, while working as a representative for one of the US aircraft manufacturers.   He had finagled some stick time, I can't recall the circumstances, and ended up in an engagement and got a kill.  All unofficial and unsubstantiated, of course.     

EDIT:

Here's a great link to photos of models of all the aircraft George Laven flew in his Air Force career - he had a penchant for colorful paint jobs.  It also backs up the claims I have heard about him, and at the end his nephew posts some interesting tidbits.   
 
https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/the-notable-aircraft-of-george-e-laven-jr.51745/

I can about imagine what "Butz" would say about me having to revise art work to make it more acceptable, but clearly it wouldn't be the first time.  His F-104 Starfighter was so colorfully painted it was even named "Really George?".   Apparently USAF brass were so unhappy with it they forced him to tone it down.

His earlier P-38 image if you need it.