First flight in DCS

[Toad]

Ah the old "realism" debate of icons/no icons. This old chestnut never really goes away.

I remember a thread from 2001 about it. I posted some information from my official USAF UPT T-38 Formation notes. Maybe Puma can chime in with some Formation Notes on viz from his career too.

"Approximately 1000 feet behind Lead tailpipes make black "figure 8" and tail numbers are easily visible but not readable."

What that means, for example, is that you can see the number 8; it's easily visible from 333 yards. But you can't tell if it's an 8 or a 3.



Here's the burner cans. They are about 2-21/2 feet in diameter I'd guess. Beyond 1000 feet they are just kinda a black oblong. Around 1000' you can see the narrowing between the burner can where they meet in the middle, thus the "figure 8".

 

So, can you see that kind of detail in AH or DCS at 333 yards? Because that's what a pilot would see in real life.

If you can't see that kind of detail in the games then that's....dare I say it....not realistic. 

Those of you asking for "no icons" are not asking for realism per se. You are asking for a game difficulty level.

Which is fine. If you want a higher level of difficulty just call it for what it is. But it's not "realism".

[Maniac]

The icons is not a big part of the debate imo, icons are not in debate here imo. there is other factors tough, allready mentioned.

Trim on level, trim on speed, trim on angle, combat trim, no real engine managment or any worries that your engine might blow etc.

Icons are secondary in the debate. Even tough they are extreme in AH, ok that they would give you an indication that you have an con, but the exact airplane type and range information? i dunno man, that is what you would have in an modern day fighter at most. I doubt an modern day fighter would provide the hud information that AH provides.

[CptTrips]

The icons is not a big part of the debate imo, that is not what provides realism.

Then there should be no push-'back turning icons on.   

I'm alright with the other stuff.

 

[Maniac]

JG 53 Dusty

[Maniac]

 We shall never surrender 

[guncrasher]

it's funny when i has argument about realism. pushing buttons and moving a stick, or pretty graphics isn't.

realism in a game is only limited by your imagination.


semp

[save]

A much cheaper alternative with most DCS engine management items and early WW2  (BOB), is Cliffs of Dover Blitz.
Soon Africa terrian with new planes  will be available.

I wait for next sale for DCS WW2 planes and I will fly both sims.

[CptTrips]

A much cheaper alternative with most DCS engine management items and early WW2  (BOB), is Cliffs of Dover Blitz.
Soon Africa terrian with new planes  will be available.

I wait for next sale for DCS WW2 planes and I will fly both sims.

Another week. I’m looking forward to it. And also the new version will be adding Ai improvements back to Dover Blitz.

[Bruv119]

I do hope Cliffs Tobruk gets a bit of a player base.  It does seem to be the best at bringing historical/combat/spotting together but without VR support I can't see it gaining a foothold compared with IL2 GB or DCS.  It caters for the middleground of playability and realism but if you get used to it, having some proper fights a little more rewarding and better looking than AH in it's current form but without the GV or capture the base gameplay.  I think they are marketing at around £70 which is a bit steep IMO but that is a one off cost for all of their planes, the map (which is vast, have flown the length of it) and all further updates included. 

All those wishlists for a Dewotine, Beaufighter, Wellington, Gladiator, Macchi or insert other random 1941-2 aircraft and it will have it.   Those mid war fights were always more enjoyable from a furballing perspective.  However the Germans will 90% grab the 109F4 and dominate, as what always happens in any computer game path of least resistance and all that.  Having the Spitfire with cannons will also be a gamechanger with the previous version blitz being limited to 303's what with the time frame of BofB.

As for dogfights I've had more intensity in Normandy than ever before (size of map, travel time to fight, instant switch if things get unbalanced etc) but I highly doubt US players get the same experience as their crowd is largely Jets.  I also can't deal with more than a couple of hours per sitting as with Track IR and headset usage you start getting tired with the amount of concentration going on.  You start wishing for an autopilot "feature"   

Hopefully I'll see Save and Bozon at somepoint and we can do some wingman flying.  That always makes any Sim/Game more enjoyable. 

[Shuffler]

I do hope Cliffs Tobruk gets a bit of a player base.  It does seem to be the best at bringing historical/combat/spotting together but without VR support I can't see it gaining a foothold compared with IL2 GB or DCS.  It caters for the middleground of playability and realism but if you get used to it, having some proper fights a little more rewarding and better looking than AH in it's current form but without the GV or capture the base gameplay.  I think they are marketing at around £70 which is a bit steep IMO but that is a one off cost for all of their planes, the map (which is vast, have flown the length of it) and all further updates included. 

All those wishlists for a Dewotine, Beaufighter, Wellington, Gladiator, Macchi or insert other random 1941-2 aircraft and it will have it.   Those mid war fights were always more enjoyable from a furballing perspective.  However the Germans will 90% grab the 109F4 and dominate, as what always happens in any computer game path of least resistance and all that.  Having the Spitfire with cannons will also be a gamechanger with the previous version blitz being limited to 303's what with the time frame of BofB.

As for dogfights I've had more intensity in Normandy than ever before (size of map, travel time to fight, instant switch if things get unbalanced etc) but I highly doubt US players get the same experience as their crowd is largely Jets.  I also can't deal with more than a couple of hours per sitting as with Track IR and headset usage you start getting tired with the amount of concentration going on.  You start wishing for an autopilot "feature"   

Hopefully I'll see Save and Bozon at somepoint and we can do some wingman flying.  That always makes any Sim/Game more enjoyable.

Will they have multiple terrains? Seems to be some folks issue here. They want terrains that change often.

[RichardDarkwood]

JG 53 Dusty

Loved this video. Best realistic combat flight sim game out there.

[CptTrips]

I do hope Cliffs Tobruk gets a bit of a player base.  It does seem to be the best at bringing historical/combat/spotting together but without VR support I can't see it gaining a foothold compared with IL2 GB or DCS.

There does seem to be a fair amount of interest.  I hope TeamFusion doesn't stuff it. 

They realize VR support is needed and it is the next post release priority.  However, they didn't want to hold up this release for it.  Non-VR probably covers the 85% case.  Disappointing but reasonable.  I broke down and got a trackIR so I can play now, but will enjoy the VR more when it comes.

The prices seems a bit high to me, but I justify it because everything they do for Tobruk also benefits Dover Blitz (e.g. AI and performance improvements, new aircraft, etc.)  Also their Full-Mission-Builder is quite impressive and hopefully supports Tobruk as well.  I might try my hand at some custom mission/campaigns.

 

[Maniac]

A much cheaper alternative with most DCS engine management items and early WW2  (BOB), is Cliffs of Dover Blitz.
Soon Africa terrian with new planes  will be available.

I wait for next sale for DCS WW2 planes and I will fly both sims.

I might get CoDB when the expansion hits depending on how many are playing the multiplayer, im not so interested in the single player campain really.

I tried the LFDM server tonite in DCS and it has the same visibility problem as SoW server has, i dont mind flyin with dots only but when the dots are so small that everybody is flyin in circles tryin to spot eachoter...

I googled DCS and visibility issues, and the more higher res monitor you have the worse you are set out to have the issue, its actually better to have an 1080p monitor then 1440p.

I sat and followed one dot/con just now, and it was amazingly small, just one tiny tiny dark pixel on my large monitor, if i had not knew he was there, there is no way i would have spotted him by just flying past, WWII is sadly not feasable in DCS right now for me because of this.

Still tempted to get in to the modern day Jet stuff in DCS tough, sure the spotting issue will still be there, but once you locked on target, the HUD will do its thing.

[CptTrips]

I might get CoDB when the expansion hits depending on how many are playing the multiplayer, im not so interested in the single player campain really.

I only played with DCS briefly, does it not support icons, or they are just not enable on the servers?

I'm pretty sure Tobruk and Blitz support icon is the server is configured that way.  Blitz does have icons in offline if you want them.

I would like to look into what it would take to run a server so I can set it up with icons for us old blind folk.  LoL

[Maniac]

I only played with DCS briefly, does it not support icons, or they are just not enable on the servers?

I'm pretty sure Tobruk and Blitz support icon is the server is configured that way.  Blitz does have icons in offline if you want them.

I would like to look into what it would take to run a server so I can set it up with icons for us old blind folk.  LoL

It does support  icons, the single player tutorial missions that come with the BF109 i bought have icons enabled, so i would be supriced if you couldnt enable them on an multiplayer server.