Balance - April 2021 FSO - Velikiye Luki - Little Stalingrad of the North

[Joker312]

Except that I have. Read the long post I have made addressing his points.

My initial post may seem dismissive, but it does reflect what I've seen through two frames. In both cases, I saw full squadrons of LA's at 20K pass by/through my squad's formation and they kept on going without a second look. I never saw them again after the first pass. They were a non-factor for the most part.

Regardless of how good or bad the Yak-9 is, the Allies have no hope of winning when LA's are a non-factor. The Yak's have performed decently well in spite of the LA's.

I Have read your post and it makes sense. Explaining the reasons for your opinion is what I was looking for. Your historical comparison is accurate except for the fact that the Russians had an enormous advantage in numbers. But that is not the point. You addressed another players concerns without being dismissive.

I have been around long enough to have seen many FSO's criticized. Many are discussed and very few are altered during the event. But because things are discussed, those that design and run these events are able to adjust future FSO's to make for a better experience for all.

I think this is what we are all interested in after all, an enjoyable, fun friday night, drinking and laughing with our friends while we play this game.

[RufusLeaking]

Is that not what you were advocating for by saying this?

Not sure how your statement is relevant otherwise.

What you wrote indicates to me that you think the Allies should not have a disadvantage in FSO because they eventually won the war historically.

I am just looking for balance. Who won in real life history is already written. FSO should be a fun challenge with balance.

Like Joker312 said:

I think this is what we are all interested in after all, an enjoyable, fun friday night, drinking and laughing with our friends while we play this game.

[Devil 505]

I am just looking for balance. Who won in real life history is already written. FSO should be a fun challenge with balance.

Ok good. That's what I want as well.

Every time I've seen someone make the "But the Allies won the war" argument it always been in an attempt to justify a gross advantage or been in a sour grapes post after the Allies lost. It is the weakest of arguments and I'm sorry for being hostile, but it's exactly what your posts looked like to me.

I think in this case that there are reasons beyond any plane set balance issues that have contributed more to the poor performance of the Allies over the last two frames. I've seen Eastern Front setups where the Allies have dominated with pretty much this exact plane set. I really do think the Allies have the tools to be successful with the plane set as it is now.

It's up to Nef if he want to make more adjustments, but I think adding new planes, cannons to the C.205, or a bunch more LA's will be overkill.

[Nefarious]

I appreciate the feedback folks.

I understand the frustration, in fact... We were here before about 2 years ago with a similar setup.

https://ahevents.net/index.php/fso-setups/86-eastern-european-theatre/1265-green-hearts-and-red-stars

There was much discussion about the set being lopsided featuring the Bf 109G-2 and 109F-4 vs the C.205, Yak-7B, and P-40C/E.

You can read much of that discussion here: https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,396586.0.html

I used this discussion to fit a later period of the Eastern Front to include a 2nd hour and inserted the Yak-9T as that was the major point of discussion in the above link. I also included the La-5FN to counter the Fw 190A-5 on the same MAX number. As mentioned above, 3 of the 4 fighters used in hour 1 are both later variants of what was historically used, I was hoping that this would even it up to similar Combat Challenges and other FSOs we have run using the identical or similar plane set.

lol, your CIC had alot of fighters go to A204 to defend your A20's which they failed to do so.  There was only 14 of us AK's defending A204 and we each had 2 to 3 fighters on us.  Allied need to distribute there fighter cover better.  The Allied fighters successfully capped A204 but didn't protect the A20's.  We killed them then the Fighters finally came down on us and overwhelming us by 2:1 if not 3:1 odds.

This was actually a planned sweep and when we encountered your 190s, you guys actually turned away from us and flew away. We were chasing, but either you guys didn't see us, or chose not to engage the handful of 205s we had chasing you... Either way, we couldn't catch you. We had met a few 109s before reaching the target area and we had some pilots engaging them and a few more that were found near the target. The 190s slipped away, we turned back to the target and next thing I heard they were attacking the bombers on the deck.

That being said, I have made some changes for Frame 3.

1 - I have moved both sides fields a little closer.

2 - I have reversed the Min's and Max's on the Yak-9T and La-5FN... meaning the Yak-9T will be required to fly 16 - and the La-5FN Maximum will be removed. This will add more La-5FNs, probably to the tune of 10-15 more than frames 1 and 2. (25-30 total) Not sure it will make or break anything, but at this point I don't think it matters, at least score wise.

3 - I am looking into the creation of a low level overcast cloud file of around 10K. This may or may not be available for frame 3 and even if available will have to be tested for appearance and effect. If possible, we might incorporate it into Frame 3.

Thanks for your continued participation.

[RichardDarkwood]

This was actually a planned sweep and when we encountered your 190s, you guys actually turned away from us and flew away. We were chasing, but either you guys didn't see us, or chose not to engage the handful of 205s we had chasing you... Either way, we couldn't catch you. We had met a few 109s before reaching the target area and we had some pilots engaging them and a few more that were found near the target. The 190s slipped away, we turned back to the target and next thing I heard they were attacking the bombers on the deck.

The 190's were suppose to keeel the bombers.

[Rocco]

I just wanted to throw in my two cents on this FSO. I would agree that the 2nd hr planes are unbalanced and the allies don't have a decent second strike option, or a fighter that can handle the frank. But from my experience I don't think the first hour planes are that out of balance.

First the c.205s were keeping with us 190s, we chose to avoid the sweep so we could find the bombers and were barely able to do so. We were barely able to keep ahead of the 205s and our tail end Charlies were forced to engage, which ended up helping the rest build seperation. You guys pushed us to the south edge of the dar ring and had timing been different the bombers would have made it in unopposed. As it was there were a lot of things going right and more than a little luck that put us in position over the bombers unopposed. We pretty much stumbled upon them while trying to get back. Just minutes after we took out the bombers we were wiped out. Not one AK landed our first hour plane, we were just overwhelmed down low.

Frame one we ran an noe mission and were wiped out over target. A couple of us managed to get bombs off but died seconds after. Again not one AK landed our first hour plane.

My point is we fought hard to accomplish our assigned missions and the fact we have yet to land a first hour plane shows we did not have an easy time of it. A good overall plan and some luck won the day for the axis.

Change 1 : no issues with moving fields closer as long as the defense can make it to target before noe bombers. Goes for both sides.

Change 2 : as stated above I don't think the 205s are outclassed, at least compared to the 190s, and adding unlimited la5s may swing things the other way. But I can't say it's not worth a try.

Change 3 : I don't see what a 10k overcast layer would do that lowering the base alt limits wouldn't. And allied holds every advantage under 10k, especially with change 1 and 2. A strategy that drags the fight to an alt that supports one side I absolutely agree with, an artificial limit that forces the fight to alts that supports only one side doesn't feel right to me.

Anyway as said just my thoughts. I don't think the score tells the whole story.

[captain1ma]

Tactics like carry more bombs, fly faster and perform better at altitude are definitely winners.

i carried 2X 500kg bombs and was capped at14k, im not sure how that figures into your formula?

[TheBug]

Switch sides and play it again next month.  The boredom of repetition might be worth the information gained.

Oh yeah and move the start time to 9pm EDT.