The Trojan Warhorse

[Devil 505]

Let's use a little logic here.

The squad emblem is a Native American on a cloud with the sky in the background.



In most photos, the color and tone of the tail seems to match the sky portion of the emblem.

Nobody would use a darkish blue-green for sky blue, but any medium blue would do.

It seems likely to me that the painters would use the same paint for both.

Therefore, I think the tail is probably a medium blue. Most likely ANA 501 True Blue.

[Greebo]

I agree the sky on the squadron badge was unlikely to have been painted blue/green which was why I painted it blue on the skin. I don't think it is necessarily the case the tail colour was the same as the badge colour though. Lets see what Lyric1's books turn up, there's a month until the next review after all.

[lyric1]

Like to pick this guys brain as to what colour blue the tail is. 



First book arrived it's a 1977 edition no colour pictures some text that is possibly useful. Of course the later version book had no tracking on it so not quite sure when it will arrive says its shipped though.



Says light blue above.
Have another colour image I found on Facebook not that sure it falls into the light blue category though? Lighter than the insignia I guess.



Wait for the newer book to arrive and go from there.

[Devil 505]

Have another colour image I found on Facebook not that sure it falls into the light blue category though? Lighter than the insignia I guess.

(Image removed from quote.)

Yeah, but look how dark the sky looks and it's nearly the same color as the tail.

I'm still in the True Blue camp.

[oboe]

AFAIK, True Blue and Light Blue are the same color - ANA 501.  I've seen it listed as either.  It appears to me as more of a medium blue, but compared to Insignia Blue, I could see how someone might name it Light Blue.

I still suspect that if the fading, desaturation, darkening, and yellowing experienced by old color images could be reversed some how, you'd see ANA 501 or something similar on the tails.   In addition, no documenter I've found referred to the tail color as any shade of green - only medium blue or light blue.   

[lyric1]

Let's use a little logic here.

The squad emblem is a Native American on a cloud with the sky in the background.

(Image removed from quote.)

In most photos, the color and tone of the tail seems to match the sky portion of the emblem.

Nobody would use a darkish blue-green for sky blue, but any medium blue would do.

It seems likely to me that the painters would use the same paint for both.

Therefore, I think the tail is probably a medium blue. Most likely ANA 501 True Blue.

The other book arrived no colour photos in it pretty much identical text about the light blue tails. The squadron patches are hard to find on any of the 79th aircraft in colour until you look at the captured axis planes they had. There is more colour photos of those than American built planes.











The last image seems to be the closest thing to the colour photos of the P-47's I think.

[Greebo]

Well, I did some research on ANA 501 True/Light Blue. Apparently there were two versions of it, pre-43 and post 43. There are lots of colour swatches on the internet and they vary quite a bit. So I picked the was the one that was the least bright, FS 15102, and tried it on the skin. To my eyes this is nothing like the tail colour shown on the photos of "The Trojan Warhorse" though, so I may stick with my original choice.

[Devil 505]

Well, I did some research on ANA 501 True/Light Blue. Apparently there were two versions of it, pre-43 and post 43. There are lots of colour swatches on the internet and they vary quite a bit. So I picked the was the one that was the least bright, FS 15102, and tried it on the skin. To my eyes this is nothing like the tail colour shown on the photos of "The Trojan Warhorse" though, so I may stick with my original choice.

(Image removed from quote.)

I think this specific shade is too bold. But if you were to make it bit more dull, it might look perfect

[oboe]

Since the tails were painted in the Spring of 1945, it seems to me the color most likely to be correct is post-'43 ANA 501.   It may need some desaturation and other adjustments due to AH3's lighting characteristics, but I suspect blue is the right track rather than green.

On a side note, we have a common expression here for an unexpected event - such an event would be described as occurring "Like a bolt out of the Blue".

<S>

[Greebo]

I have had an epiphany regarding the tail colour. ANA 501 Light Blue looks too light and bright to be the right colour going by the colour photos but the written references say it was used. So what if the Group did use it but they darkened it with some black to make the yellow bolts stand out better? To test this I made a copy of the tail colour layer, changed the colour to USAAF Jet Black and placed it above the Light Blue layer in the stack. By altering the opacity of this layer I was able to adjust the overall blend to get the colour you see in the screenshot. Its about 70% Light Blue and 30% Jet Black. This looks pretty close to the colour in the photos to me, the black has not only darkened it but desaturated it too.

I have also redone the squadron badge and altered the fin extension based on some new photos that Lyric1 found for me.

[Devil 505]

You might be on to something there. Maybe desaturate it a little more? It still looks pretty bold to me.

Also, is there a reason you did not paint the entire fin fillet this time?

[oboe]

Could be, but I can't help thinking True Blue is appearing to bright because you are comparing it to an image that is in shade.  How would the tail color in the photo change if the tail was illuminated in bright sunlight rather than being in shade?

I'm not sure where the green is coming from in the tail - I placed a True Blue swatch in the image and overlaid with a swatch of Jet Black at 30% opacity.   Using the color picker tool to get at the RGB values, the tail color has much more green relative to the blue compared to my swatch overlays.   It looks more like a dark shade of Teal to me.



Here's a version of the skin on DCS's P-47D (though I would've sworn this was a pic of a real life restored warbird).   Does the blue too light?  I *think* most people would call that a Medium Blue.   Interesting the blue here also does not extend the length of the tail fillet...

[Vraciu]

Wow.

[oboe]

Found a better shot.   I don't think truly ANA 501, but I would call it a Medium Blue.   Quite believable per the written documentation of tail color, but definitely appears different from the old color photo.   You've got a tough choice, Greebo!





Does this help at all?  I took a section of the new WWII color photo and tried to make the sky a more realistic blue - letting my changes also affect the tail color.  Yellow-Blue Color Balance shifted toward blue, Master Hue shifter slightly toward blue, increased both saturation and lightness values:   

[oboe]

Played some more, and applied all changes to the whole photo - trying to increase brightness and enhance contrast while increasing bias toward blue from yellow.



I agree True Blue seems to light and bright, and you may be on to something with the idea of mixed paints.  Could it be they mixed Insignia Blue with True Blue, rather than Jet Black?