SEATAC Q-400 guy

[Spikes]

A bag carrier never spends any time in the cockpit of any airliner, doing normal tasks.

Did you read the article?

"Russell’s tow-crew work gave him access to the flight deck of airplanes as a matter of course. (The task is accomplished by a pair of workers, one in the tow rig, the other in the cockpit riding the brakes.)"

In easier to understand terms, he would have had time in the cockpit doing normal tasks.

[Puma44]

Did you read the article?

In easier to understand terms, he would have had time in the cockpit doing normal tasks.

Yes.    In easier to understand terms, it’s not common (or a smart practice with a multi million dollar aircraft) for bag handlers to ride brakes for a tow operation.  Instead, mechanics handle the task since they are intimately familiar with the aircraft systems.  Bag handlers, on the other hand, are familiar with the job of moving bags to/from the aircraft.

[mechanic]

Pretty much every person the human race considers fit for a position of leadership spends their whole life's energy working out ways to lie convincingly to ensure that they stay in that position. Everybody knows it, it's not even an unwritten rule. It's plain common knowledge that humans are dishonest creatures as soon as the truth would make them lose something they want. Ganging up and group accusing a person of being a crackpot for speaking against the status quo is also pretty typical human behaviour. The same type of person called Orwell a crackpot and guess what, everything he predicted looks to be accurate.

Throwing conspiracy theories around might not always be the most helpful behaviour but anyone who truly believes that the world is just as it seems, how it is being presented to us, is far more stupid.

[Spikes]

Yes.    In easier to understand terms, it’s not common (or a smart practice with a multi million dollar aircraft) for bag handlers to ride brakes for a tow operation.  Instead, mechanics handle the task since they are intimately familiar with the aircraft systems.  Bag handlers, on the other hand, are familiar with the job of moving bags to/from the aircraft.

Sure, I get it. But he did.

[Puma44]

Sure, I get it. But he did.

…with unintended consequences for all concerned.

Hopefully, Horizon has changed its procedure for who has access to their aircraft.  Sounds like this guy could have been pulled of the ramp as the result of his earlier actions. 

[DmonSlyr]

Not sure how anyone could be caught "pushing buttons" in a plane but not be fired immediately. Would seem like a major No No to me.

Pretty much every person the human race considers fit for a position of leadership spends their whole life's energy working out ways to lie convincingly to ensure that they stay in that position. Everybody knows it, it's not even an unwritten rule. It's plain common knowledge that humans are dishonest creatures as soon as the truth would make them lose something they want. Ganging up and group accusing a person of being a crackpot for speaking against the status quo is also pretty typical human behaviour. The same type of person called Orwell a crackpot and guess what, everything he predicted looks to be accurate.

Throwing conspiracy theories around might not always be the most helpful behaviour but anyone who truly believes that the world is just as it seems, how it is being presented to us, is far more stupid.

I didn't become a controller and GM of a company at the age of 29 for being an idiot or crack pot, that I can tell you. I often find that one deminsional thinkers don't go as far as others because they reject/Ignore thinking that is too complex for them. Sort of like a bunch of high school jocs picking on the math nerd in school. Who do you think goes further in life? They will never understand how the math wiz solves the big problems. One demisional thinking has taken over much of today's population who only follow sources of authority and do not expand their thinking to other possibilities. As you said, they probably don't want to because they are corrupt. When one person doesn't "tow the line" they get picked on for being different. They is why the world has followed the path of the Joc rather than the nerd. They think its cooler to be the joc not realizing they aren't using their mind to the fullest extent. This may have future consequences.

When everyone laughed at me for buying 100K shares of a penny stock, I shrugged them off and went on my way because of course they didn't do any real research into it like I did. Now I'm up 800% laughing my way to the bank.

[Golden Dragon]

Only crazy people go around calling others "mentally ill" when they think differently than them. Fallacies are a sign of being mentally and arrogantly incorrect.

Everyone thinks differently from me.  And vice versa.  No two think exactly alike.  I don't think that makes them inherently crazy.  But people who truly believe the Q crap are people like Marjorie Taylor.  And yes, she is crazy.  Bat "you know what" crazy. As is every other person who buys into the Q garbage.  Evidently that includes you.  And so is anyone else thinking that the Q400 incident was anything more than some suicidal guy who stole a plane. 

Anyone who spends a couple of hours on a flight simulator has all the skill needed to take off an airliner.  All they need to know next is how to fire up the turbines.  Which can be researched for just about any aircraft out there via YouTube.  They don't even need to have any idea about speeds.  Or even parking brakes for that matter evidently although I'm skeptical that he actually had the parking brake on. Every jet I'm typed on wouldn't go far with the parking brake set.  Although truthfully I don't know this for fact as we don't have sim sessions devoted to taxiing with the parking brake set.   Push the levers up, pull back, and the wing will eventually fly.  I don't know why crazy conspiracy people look to his accomplishing this as proof it was a coverup of some crazy conspiracy of theirs.  I guess that's part of being crazy.   Physics and science go out the window. 

[Golden Dragon]

Yes.    In easier to understand terms, it’s not common (or a smart practice with a multi million dollar aircraft) for bag handlers to ride brakes for a tow operation.  Instead, mechanics handle the task since they are intimately familiar with the aircraft systems.  Bag handlers, on the other hand, are familiar with the job of moving bags to/from the aircraft.

I've been in the US airline industry up front in the pointy end for over twenty years.  No airline I've ever flown for or heard of allows baggage handlers access to the cockpit much less entrusts them with moving the aircraft.  The extent of their training is usually as in depth as how to push a button located usually in the forward galley which closes a bus tie contactor allowing some AC power to light up a dedicated bus which usually contains some interior lighting.  That's about it.  Aircraft are without exception moved by either mechanics or pilots.  I was mistakenly led to believe he was in fact a mechanic. 

A "ramper" on the flight deck throwing switches and poking around would be an immediate call to a ground security coordinator and law enforcement if I ever witnessed it.  It just isn't done.  The only time they ever poke their heads up their is when they grab the trash bag.

I happen to commute to work via SEA by the way and I'm pretty sure that Menzies personnel who in fact handle baggage handling are not riding brakes during aircraft tows.  I could be wrong but I doubt very much the Alaska Air Group is letting them do it even over at Horizon.

[Puma44]

I've been in the US airline industry up front in the pointy end for over twenty years.  No airline I've ever flown for or heard of allows baggage handlers access to the cockpit much less entrusts them with moving the aircraft.  The extent of their training is usually as in depth as how to push a button located usually in the forward galley which closes a bus tie contactor allowing some AC power to light up a dedicated bus which usually contains some interior lighting.  That's about it.  Aircraft are without exception moved by either mechanics or pilots.  I was mistakenly led to believe he was in fact a mechanic. 

A "ramper" on the flight deck throwing switches and poking around would be an immediate call to a ground security coordinator and law enforcement if I ever witnessed it.  It just isn't done.  The only time they ever poke their heads up their is when they grab the trash bag.

I happen to commute to work via SEA by the way and I'm pretty sure that Menzies personnel who in fact handle baggage handling are not riding brakes during aircraft tows.  I could be wrong but I doubt very much the Alaska Air Group is letting them do it even over at Horizon.

Same experience and thoughts from my 20+ year airline experience.  The article written by The Rolling Stones “expert” pieced together without interviews from primary players leaves a lot to be skeptical about.

[LCADolby]

I don't work in the airline industry, but using logical process, sim experience and a little guestimation and given 5minutes alone with a Q400 or any other aircraft of choice, I could very probably get it to start and move and taxi and fly, just don't ask me to tune the radios and make accurate radio transmissions. I've no idea what "with Mike or With Zulu" means. A bold claim I know, but I'd prove it cpit opportunity given, and I'd bet a few others in Aces High could do just the same.
There is the absolute possibility that the guy used his companies lax security around him "getting the trash bag" and sim experience to go off and do what he did.
No conspiracies, just an opportunity and (depending on perspective) poor judgement.

[Spikes]

I don't work in the airline industry, but using logical process, sim experience and a little guestimation and given 5minutes alone with a Q400 or any other aircraft of choice, I could very probably get it to start and move and taxi and fly, just don't ask me to tune the radios and make accurate radio transmissions.

This is exactly my point. It is useless to sit here and argue whether or not he should have been allowed into the cockpit. I'm sure he should'nt have been, it's frowned upon, it's illegal, it's not common practice, whatever. The bottom line is, he was.

The question is: how did he have the knowledge to cold start a turboprop airliner?

The answer is: time sitting in the cockpit familiarizing himself with the controls, most likely coupled with sim time and basic research.

Same experience and thoughts from my 20+ year airline experience.  The article written by The Rolling Stones “expert” pieced together without interviews from primary players leaves a lot to be skeptical about.

Where did he (Tim Dickinson) call himself an expert?

[Puma44]

Where did he (Tim Dickinson) call himself an expert?

You miss the “point”.

[Busher]

This is exactly my point. It is useless to sit here and argue whether or not he should have been allowed into the cockpit. I'm sure he should'nt have been, it's frowned upon, it's illegal, it's not common practice, whatever. The bottom line is, he was.

The question is: how did he have the knowledge to cold start a turboprop airliner?

The answer is: time sitting in the cockpit familiarizing himself with the controls, most likely coupled with sim time and basic research.
Where did he (Tim Dickinson) call himself an expert?

Took me maybe 30 seconds to find this instructional video which goes beyond starting it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjtCJQsTnrA

[mechanic]

I don't work in the airline industry, but using logical process, sim experience and a little guestimation and given 5minutes alone with a Q400 or any other aircraft of choice, I could very probably get it to start and move and taxi and fly, just don't ask me to tune the radios and make accurate radio transmissions. I've no idea what "with Mike or With Zulu" means. A bold claim I know, but I'd prove it cpit opportunity given, and I'd bet a few others in Aces High could do just the same.
There is the absolute possibility that the guy used his companies lax security around him "getting the trash bag" and sim experience to go off and do what he did.
No conspiracies, just an opportunity and (depending on perspective) poor judgement.

You've got to be kidding. I put money that given a cessna 152 and told to start and go fly without any assistance the average non-pilot would pile it into the fuel bowser before reaching the runway. That is even if they managed to start the engine quick enough without drawing the attention of every pair of eyes on the airfield first.

I absolutely don't think there is anything but a crazy guy who wanted to fly a plane in this story. Apart from maybe the cover up that they shot him down rather than he crashed. Maybe..

But saying you could start and roll out this airliner with nothing but sims and youtube is naïve as hell.

[DmonSlyr]

Same experience and thoughts from my 20+ year airline experience.  The article written by The Rolling Stones “expert” pieced together without interviews from primary players leaves a lot to be skeptical about.

Exactly. Where is the evidence of him flying on any simulators. Where is the evidence of him downloading flight manuals. Where is the evidence of any knowledge that he knew how to start and fly and airplane? All we have is hear say. Couple that with the story of him wanting to be in the military and law enforcement. What happened to that? He got a degree. Why didn't he join? Did he try and get turned down? Why does the story make him out to be a great guy only to not be? I refuse to take stories like this at face value because there isn't enough for me to go on.

Everyone thinks differently from me.  And vice versa.  No two think exactly alike.  I don't think that makes them inherently crazy.  But people who truly believe the Q crap are people like Marjorie Taylor.  And yes, she is crazy.  Bat "you know what" crazy. As is every other person who buys into the Q garbage.  Evidently that includes you.  And so is anyone else thinking that the Q400 incident was anything more than some suicidal guy who stole a plane. 

Anyone who spends a couple of hours on a flight simulator has all the skill needed to take off an airliner.  All they need to know next is how to fire up the turbines.  Which can be researched for just about any aircraft out there via YouTube.  They don't even need to have any idea about speeds.  Or even parking brakes for that matter evidently although I'm skeptical that he actually had the parking brake on. Every jet I'm typed on wouldn't go far with the parking brake set.  Although truthfully I don't know this for fact as we don't have sim sessions devoted to taxiing with the parking brake set.   Push the levers up, pull back, and the wing will eventually fly.  I don't know why crazy conspiracy people look to his accomplishing this as proof it was a coverup of some crazy conspiracy of theirs.  I guess that's part of being crazy.   Physics and science go out the window. 

If you haven't reviewed the Q post 1400 to 1800 than STFU about it. You obviously haven't done the research to your baseless claims. I have not once seen compelling evidence that Q is not associated with military or to the past president. There are simply too many coincidences and connections. I have followed it from the day it came out. It's not my fault you choose to be ignorant, but don't be arrogant about it. I find that to be a huge weakness in the opposition. If you think MTG is crazy. Than you are surely lost and it shows why America is being dismantled due to people's like yours arrogance. We had 93,000 over dose deaths in America last year. Some of us are really Fing tired of watching our friends and family get Fked by these drugs. Some of us are really potato peeling tired of wars in Syria, lybia, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Some of us are really potato peeling tired of losing their country to invaders. Some of us are really potato peeling tired of paying exuberant taxes in which are going to Honduras and everything other country while I have to drive by over 10 RVs trashing the scenic Marine Drive along the Columbia river and another 40 lining the street adjacent to it. Some of us are really potato peeling tried of Klous Schwab and the WEF and WHO and UN trying to control our lives while they allow China to Harbour slaves for labor and committ pollution 100x worse than America. Some of us are really Fkikg tired of race and gender and sex being subverted on our children.

Let me tell you something right now Mr., You havent seen crazy yet. The wrath is coming if this doesn't stop. Mark my words.