Author Topic: 2007 Redeux?  (Read 12169 times)

Offline Eagler

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Re: 2007 Redeux?
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2021, 07:47:36 AM »
Semp

Sorry about your covid experiences but please remember it was not everyones

Do what you need to feel safe

I was just pointing out how it is the perfect tool to manipulate many things as it has been used including the market

Word is this new variant might be the beginning of the end of it as a world stopper as it seems to be highly contagious but very weak which should help with the herd immunity - that thing we were told we needed in the beginning but now no one talks about anymore as they all seem set to get everyone on a cycle of neverending boosters...

Eagler
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Offline CptTrips

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Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: 2007 Redeux?
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2021, 05:45:34 PM »
Semp

Sorry about your covid experiences but please remember it was not everyones

Do what you need to feel safe

I was just pointing out how it is the perfect tool to manipulate many things as it has been used including the market

Word is this new variant might be the beginning of the end of it as a world stopper as it seems to be highly contagious but very weak which should help with the herd immunity - that thing we were told we needed in the beginning but now no one talks about anymore as they all seem set to get everyone on a cycle of neverending boosters...

Eagler

eagler, I dont talk about my family to get sympathy or for people to feel sorry for us.  and by that I dont mean that you are putting us down or anything like this.  this is just a discussion.  I feel I am the average nobody and there's many other families just like ours.  and there's other families that havent been affected.

you ever watched the film the wolf of wallstreet?  brokers will do anything use anything to make people buy or sell stocks, that's how they make money.  that movie is a perfect example of it.  I remember back in the 80s when alan greenspan was chair of the federal reserve.  I dont remember exactly how he said but he was talking about the market and mention "jubilus exuberance".  (forgive if I dont spelled it correctly, couldnt find the right quote)  and the market went into a frenzy.  the stockbrokers will use anything to make people buy or sell as that's how they make money.

everybody is using covid to push one way or another for two reasons, power and money.

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: 2007 Redeux?
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2021, 05:54:31 PM »
I remember back in the 80s when alan greenspan was chair of the federal reserve.  I dont remember exactly how he said but he was talking about the market and mention "jubilus exuberance".

"Irrational Exuberance".



Bernanke: "Hold my beer..."

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Offline guncrasher

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Re: 2007 Redeux?
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2021, 05:56:33 PM »
"Irrational Exuberance".



Bernanke: "Hold my beer..."

ok that makes more sense   :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: 2007 Redeux?
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2021, 05:58:40 PM »
Of course note, if inflation were to drop off after xmas and the Fed could go back to 0% because....Omicron...yeah, that's it;  they could keep it propped up and keep inflating for year more.   Regardless, the end result is the same...except bigger and probably bloodier.

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Offline guncrasher

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Re: 2007 Redeux?
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2021, 11:45:07 PM »
this is how it is





semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: 2007 Redeux?
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2021, 11:50:50 PM »
here's another example






semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: 2007 Redeux?
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2021, 12:05:58 AM »
one more, you guys think for yourself, just like this this,





we all get played, but who's gonna close


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Eagler

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Re: 2007 Redeux?
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2021, 07:16:57 AM »
The market has not ever been this manipulated and over valued than now in my lifetime.

They screwed the pooch in 09 by propping it up instead taking the pain then...

Since then it has just gone criminal IMO .. regardless of what administration was screaming for the next rate drop...all are to blame for where we are now financially.

The only thing holding us up is the fact the entire globe are greedy corrupt sobs

As the dollar loses its hold on its reserve currency and petrol dollar status our standard of living can do nothing but go down..thanks tricky Richard for getting rid of that pesky gold standard.  :rolleyes:

But at least we have a military we can spin up another 20 year unwinnable war with in an attempt to pull us out of the next recession

Eagler

"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


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Offline CptTrips

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Re: 2007 Redeux?
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2021, 11:10:50 AM »


The far away sound of cracking ice.....

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/10/evergrande-slides-into-default-while-some-ratings-agencies-keep-quiet.html

Who is going to be Lehman Brothers this time?


Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Eagler

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Re: 2007 Redeux?
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2021, 12:01:34 PM »
The human infrastructure bill will save us all lol

Record inflation and the corrupt market goes up

Eagler
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


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Offline CptTrips

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Re: 2007 Redeux?
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2021, 12:40:36 PM »
The human infrastructure bill will save us all lol

Record inflation and the corrupt market goes up

Eagler


https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutch_tulip_bulb_market_bubble.asp


The normal year end Santa-Rally was pretty expected.  Might go up a bit from here.  The market can run a bit farther, but it's just going to die more tired.  :cool:

Dec 15-16 the Fed will probably announce a doubling of their initial plans to taper QE.  It will be interesting to see how the market takes that.
The real test will be early Q2 2022 when Fed start raising the actual rates again.  If inflation doesn't prove "transitory" by then, they will have no choice;  their hands will be forced. 

That's if the China flag isn't flying over Taipei City by then.  In that case, all bets are off.  The new then might be consumed about the two US carriers at the bottom of the South China Sea and not the market crash. 

I will be flabbergasted if stuff doesn't hit the fan bay end of 2024. 
I will be mildly amazed if it hasn't by end of 2023.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it hit the fan in 2022 sometime. 
I expect the end result to be bad.  Really bad.  Maybe worse than either 2001 or 2007. 
I got whacked pretty good both those times but had decades more work life to recover the investments.  I'm too close to retirement to take the full ride on the Crazy-Train into downtown Crazy-Town again.  I'm getting off at the next stop. ;)  If things haven't degraded by end of next year then maybe I'm the one full of it and might ease a little back in.  Maybe just TIPS/Total Bond Index.  If we get through two actual rate hikes without problems then maybe a little total market index fund. 

But, as the physicist Niels Bohr once said, "“Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future!”   :D






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Offline Eagler

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Re: 2007 Redeux?
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2021, 03:11:53 PM »
The Fed just missed another opportunity to reign this in but did nothing...

Check out I bonds now paying over 7% to fight this criminal inflation

Eagler
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: 2007 Redeux?
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2021, 04:36:40 PM »
The Fed just missed another opportunity to reign this in but did nothing...

Check out I bonds now paying over 7% to fight this criminal inflation


Well, they did about what I was expecting.  In fact, they sound slightly more hawkish than I was hoping.   

They first have $60 billion (biiiiiillllion)  per month bond buying QE they have to wind down before raising rates.  You can't just yank the rug out from under the market all at once.  (Though they should have started in 2010. )  I hate to be a Fed defender, but putting past mistakes aside, they did what I thought they needed to do.  But you have to give the market some time to digest and come to terms with the new reality.  The punch bowl is being removed (in earnest I believe) for the first time in 20ish years.  That's not going to happen in a single day, but this was a clear shot across the bow of a lot of traders who simply didn't believe this day would ever come.  It's going to take a little while for the implications to fully sink into the minds of a lot of the young guns on Wall Street.
 
My fear was that they were going to be locked in to feel-good self-delusion and not realize they need to drastically change course.  What I have seen is encouraging.  It's all about telegraphing your future moves well ahead of time to hope to prevent surprise/panic.  They've announced "Last Call"  and they have signaled that the punch bowl will be removed.  No one expected they would raise rates today.  That would have been a disaster without setting expectation ahead of time.  Though it would have been fun to watch. ;)

But, the party is over.  I still expect a year end run up and the obligatory Santa-Rally.  It'll take a couple of months for the QE taper to start being felt.  The first real rate change in June will convince the remaining hold-outs that yes, this is not a drill this time.

Thing is, the majority of traders on Wall Street were in grade-school the last time we had rates that were not 0% or so close to 0% to not make a difference.   They have no experience trading in that environment and are still having a hard time swallowing what the math is telling them the effects on the current extreme bubble  valuations.  They have the charts and the math, but they still can't bear the conclusion.  Bonus' are only made in a rising market.  Show me the financial incentive and I'll tell you what people want desperately to convince themselves.  ;)

To paraphrase the comment of one older trader I saw recently:
Quote
There is still a lot of unwillingness of young traders to accept what's coming.  They understand; They just still can't believe.

These are the youngsters with their hands on the controls of the market.  If that doesn't make your sphincter pucker a bit, then you should go see a doctor.  :cool:

But, alas, I think the Fed is trapped.  Too much to unwind with too little time to do it without a lot of pain no matter what.  Inflation is already getting annoying.  I just got back from the store.  A 4-pack of some not particularly impressive looking Kroger steaks $60.  By mid next year, it will be worse I think.  I think average American's will be screaming bloody murder about prices.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2021, 04:39:43 PM by CptTrips »
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.