5G and Big Ol Jet Airliners

[fuzeman]

So 5G and radar altimeters in big ol jet airliners; Steve Miller     , don’t work together to well. Somebody didn’t check a few things out.   

[Busher]

Back to the old Cat 1 Limits of 200 and 1/2.

Couldn't begin to guess how many flights that will cancel but you can be sure, Air Line dispatchers won't even depart a flight if there's a doubt about landing limits. Diversions cost huge $.

[Puma44]

That ain’t gonna chance until a member of congress ends up a hundred miles away from where they thought they were gonna be on some cold, stormy, low visibility night.

[Estes]

Maybe my memory isn't what it used to be, but didn't they say the same toejam when 4g was new?

[Rocco]

The issue here isn't 5g itself, it's that in the US they sold a block of spectrum to the cell companies that sits right up against the radar alt frequencies, and may not have left enough room to ensure no interference between them.

5g has been in use in S Korea and Europe for a while now with no issues, but they left a frequency buffer.

[mikeWe9a]

And, at least in Europe, the 5G transmitters are limited to a lower power level than in the US.

[Eagler]

You'd thunk that this would have been tested out by now

Eagler

[BoilerDown]

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/01/airline-ceos-make-u-turn-now-say-5g-isnt-a-big-problem-for-altimeters

[guncrasher]

I live near the ontario airport, went to pick up my brother last year, I had 5g signal.  not a plane crashed.  then again dont know if it affected any airplane.  for what I understand it does as it was explained to me by another pilot.


semp

[save]

it's plane dependent, as different plane types use different radio altimeter frequencies depending on what's equipment is installed.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/01/faa-clears-62-of-us-planes-for-low-visibility-landings-amid-5g-rollout/

[Busher]

I live near the ontario airport, went to pick up my brother last year, I had 5g signal.  not a plane crashed.  then again dont know if it affected any airplane.  for what I understand it does as it was explained to me by another pilot.


semp

Semp, I was an airline pilot all my career. I don't think interference with the radio altimeter was ever likely to cause a crash. It was used primarily as an aid in the development of safe "low limits" instrument approaches. Prior to the development of the RADALT and other tools, the nominal limit on instrument approaches was typically 200 ft. and that was based on a barometric altimeter.
So in simple terms, if pilots have any doubt that their radio altimeter is not functioning to spec, they will not fly to lower limits (lower than the limit  displayed on the approach chart that is based solely on the barometric altimeter).
So while I said that this issue was not likely to cause a crash, it's still a huge pain to airline managements as they either cancel flights or watch them divert from destination to alternate airports.

[guncrasher]

don't really understand what you said.  but I should have been clearer on my previous post. was actuality referring to a stormy black nights.

this is something different but Ontario has at times winds that we consider acceptable by now.  70 to 80 mph from the north. the joke around here is you buy patio furniture for your neighbors. I am amazed at how planes land under this conditions.

semp

[Busher]

don't really understand what you said.  but I should have been clearer on my previous post. was actuality referring to a stormy black nights.

this is something different but Ontario has at times winds that we consider acceptable by now.  70 to 80 mph from the north. the joke around here is you buy patio furniture for your neighbors. I am amazed at how planes land under this conditions.

semp

I guess I got too verbose in trying to explain why a misbehaving radio altimeter will NOT likely cause a crash.

As to winds, all airplanes have a crosswind limit... wind straight down the runway is a non-event...  other than the mechanical turbulence that usually results. If the crosswind is above the limit, you go land at your alternate.

Pretty good video of guys handling some pretty ugly winds. Rarely leads to a nice landing but anytime you can use the airplane again, it qualifies as a good one....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh8mE0xPR4I

[guncrasher]

I like this one better. I would have jumped out of the plane, lol.

https://youtu.be/w4EQuM_t8Fo

semp

[Busher]

I like this one better. I would have jumped out of the plane, lol.

https://youtu.be/w4EQuM_t8Fo

semp

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