Author Topic: Head movement scaling  (Read 1017 times)

Offline Spikes

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15724
    • Twitch: Twitch Feed
Head movement scaling
« on: February 21, 2022, 01:08:05 PM »
I know this might sound dumb, but is there any way to scale head movement in VR? So that I don't have to fully turn around to see behind me? Otherwise I'll just have to get used to using the hat switch maybe to look behind.

I know it kind of defeats the purpose, but I just have a feeling I'm going to throw my neck out at some point whipping my head around in a dogfight.  :rofl
i7-12700k | Gigabyte Z690 GAMING X | 64GB G.Skill DDR4 | EVGA 1080ti FTW3 | H150i Capellix

FlyKommando.com

Offline Drano

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4125
Re: Head movement scaling
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2022, 01:27:13 PM »
That would be the perfect marriage of VR and TIR wouldn't it? I know there's an app that does exactly that for IL-2 and DCS that works in SteamVR called NeckSafer. I tried it with AH using Steam but it doesn't work right. Rotation is prefect but head pos is jacked easy high. If only!

Otherwise the hat switches work. I find I only pretty much need forward 45 right and left to do the job. Gives me just enough more range so I'm not twisting my neck off in AH.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

"Drano"
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

FSO flying with the 412th Friday Night Volunteer Group

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9891
Re: Head movement scaling
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2022, 01:40:47 PM »
It's not dumb at all.

I requested this very early on in AHs VR implementation, as in AH2 I used noirtrack/freetrack with various vr headsets and scaled tracking - Hitech said no.

Offline Spikes

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15724
    • Twitch: Twitch Feed
Re: Head movement scaling
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2022, 02:53:19 PM »
Thanks guys...I figured that might be the case. Good point with the 45 degree bit, I'll give that a shot tonight and see if I can make it work. I do love how HT has implemented VR and also the smoothness of hot-swapping between normal view and VR when you put the headset on and take it off.

i7-12700k | Gigabyte Z690 GAMING X | 64GB G.Skill DDR4 | EVGA 1080ti FTW3 | H150i Capellix

FlyKommando.com

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18219
Re: Head movement scaling
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2022, 05:57:24 PM »
I use the views on the jstick hat and save my neck in vr

The 6 view in vr is one of the best things ah has over dcs and il2 imo

Eagler
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9891
Re: Head movement scaling
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2022, 11:56:09 AM »
tbh I like scaling better. With scaling you can keep your eyes on the target, with a snap to 6 view you lose your orientation a little bit and take eyes off targets (especially air to ground).

Offline Drano

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4125
Re: Head movement scaling
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2022, 12:29:28 PM »
The NeckSafer program in IL2 is quite natural. Almost as good as TIR. It only works in the yaw rotation tho. A limitation of SteamVR they say.

There really oughta be some sort of universal program for this that works for all VR HMDs. Not everyone has a 20 year old neck!

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

"Drano"
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

FSO flying with the 412th Friday Night Volunteer Group

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17932
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: Head movement scaling
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2022, 03:44:55 PM »
Yup that is the hardest part of getting use to VR, well that an the giggling  :) Its just too much fun in VR !!!

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9891
Re: Head movement scaling
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2022, 01:43:25 AM »
Yup that is the hardest part of getting use to VR, well that an the giggling  :) Its just too much fun in VR !!!

Imagine going back 15 years and being the only person in game with VR and trying to explain that to your squadies in FSO ... I think they thought I was mad right Drano :)

Offline Drano

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4125
Re: Head movement scaling
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2022, 12:02:58 PM »
And you were in the steam punk early adopter era of VR too!

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

"Drano"
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

FSO flying with the 412th Friday Night Volunteer Group

Offline BuzzLightyear

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: Head movement scaling
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2022, 12:33:40 AM »
Let me start by saying that what I am about to say will probably spur some negative reply. I truly am not trolling for any such negativity, I never do. My thought process by nature goes against the grain, please dont banter me because my ideas don't align with yours. Instead, try exploring my view.

 Head movement scaling for enhanced check 6 abilities in VR. Please lessen my virtual realness experience by giving me a tool so that I may achieve my end result with less effort? Take from the non virtual 2d part of the game and adapt it in VR and set hat switch looking to achieve the end result with less effort? It is human nature to shortcut to achieve end result with less or no effort. Remember when there was no hat switch viewing? I agree that our necks are no longer 20 yrs old and all it takes is a quick look in the wrong direction, the wrong way and the next thing you know you have stiff neck for 2 weeks.. 

 When I watch youtube vids of Aces High Ace pilots, there is one common aspect in every single one of them. The views are bouncing all over the place.. Some guys fly while looking backwards. It can be hard to follow. I get it though, its how you keep your eyes on the enemy, or multiple enemies. I'm sure that is probably the hardest adjustment for you guys to make when making the switch to VR. It must feel like you are blind to not have the ability to snap look in any direction like you do when playing non vr and have played for some 20 years.
After watching some of my streams, Lunatic asked me "Why don't you check your six?" after noticing that I never hat switch my view to the 6 pos nor do I strain my neck to look straight back.  I use my radar to see enemy at my 6 at a glance. But to maintain spatial awareness in VR in flight i do the same thing I do in life everyday.
 I look around, recognize your direction of travel, calculate your path and adjust my path to intercept or evade. If multiple planes then my mind sees multiple paths, calculates and adjusts. You already do that with enemy that are in front of you, let your minds eye do it for planes behind you as well and it will. Just like we don't need google maps navigation to tell us how to get somewhere, we don't need to scale our head turn. let your brain give you a mental picture of everything behind you in real time. You know what your enemy is going to do already, you just use the check six for verification. Let go Luke, use the force and it will guide you well. The mind is a powerful computer[ but only if we let it be.

 Whats my point? you dont need to scale your turn, you dont need hat switch snap views. trust your brain,your experience and your incredible knowledge of every aircrafts ability in the game to give you the mental views you seek.

This subject reminds me of something I learned about surviellence.. The thousand yard stare.. The ability to see as far as the eye can see, in every direction, without appearing to be looking in any direction at all..

No points, just thought experiments.

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9891
Re: Head movement scaling
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2022, 02:11:11 PM »
VR does not currently implement the ability to move your eyes, ie when you look behind you - you will use your upper body, neck, and eyes to achieve that. Scaling imho reflects the ability to move your eyes. We are not owls.

Having used scaling with VR in AH (and I suspect the only one too), my experience was it did not lessen the "virtual realness experience" in any way.

Offline Drano

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4125
Re: Head movement scaling
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2022, 05:17:41 PM »
And I can report the NeckSafer thingy in IL2 takes nothing away either. But neck pain of course.


Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

"Drano"
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

FSO flying with the 412th Friday Night Volunteer Group