ETO Custom Arena

[JimmyD3]

For those wishing to check out the ETOMA map we have been putting it up in a Custom Arena. Feel free to check it out, and provide feedback if you found something wrong or something that is needed. It is our hope to have it put into rotation in the not too distant future.

The idea for this map came from Oboe, and he has been a major contributor in its development. I would like to thank him for his patience and oversight, as well as the numerous contributions.

[whiteman]

Nice, can't wait to check it out!

[oboe]

Yes, please everyone get in there and check it out!   Kenai has done a fantastic job and put a ton of work into this map and I think it's going to be a great addition to the MA map rotation if it gets approved.   

Please leave your feedback here so Hitech can gauge people's anticipation for this terrain.  I know I'm chomping at the bit to lift off from East Anglia in B-17s headed for Berlin, or with B-24's in North Africa heading for the refineries at Ploesti, or Ju88s or He 111s bound for night-bombing of London.   Cross-channel fighter sweeps, anti-armor ground attack in the Russian steppes, airborne paratroops assaulting the base at Crete, its all available in real-world flavor.   Recreate the War's famous offensives in the tumultuous environment of the MA, or create your own what-if scenarios.

There are GV battles in Switzerland, lots of opportunities for ground assaults, amphibious landings, naval battles, strategic bombing, etc - all in real-world, historic locations.



Thanks to all of you who are willing to check it out!   I'm really excited about it and can't wait to check it out with other players in there.

[Hajo]

Adds immersion.  Anything that does that impresses me a great deal.  Makes a great map for events also!

Well done to all.    Of course the maps bases would have to be modified. But all in all well done.

[nopoop]

Looks great !!

[scott66]

Nice job kenai!!!

[guncrasher]

awesome job, but the green side would dominate every time.

semp

[oboe]

Semp,

What do you see that is so dominant about the Green side?  Its a real challenge to try to build in balance into an map that is based on real-world geography, and while we know each side has strengths and weaknesses, we are trying to design it so they cancel each other out.

Green for example, has limited freedom of movement of its fleets - the Black Sea fleet is vulnerable if it moves to the Aegean Sea, and the fleet in the Baltic has a long way to go to reach any action.

Assuming equal numbered sides and no two sides gang up on the third, what positional strengths do you see for Green?  Many of Green's bases are pretty far from the front lines, and Green has difficulty bringing more than one fleet into the action.   Blue Fleets, OTOH, have free reign in the Mediterranean Sea and Red Country can quickly put together a 2v1 fleet action in the North Sea, or the Atlantic...

[guncrasher]

the green side have their bases closer together with several bases all around within a sector or 1 1/2 to counter attack, while they do have the largest front at the same time they can also switch fighters around and be able to easily defend.  only way to push them back is if the other countries horde them.  if they take turkey completely and also the 3 bases in 9-14 that would give them a larger front but easier to attack the enemy and concentrate in the middle.  the city closer to the front is a disadvatage but we have learned now to live with strats down.

the red side has a fair chance and I can almost feel their first option would be to take spain.


the blue side is the weakest of all.  bases spread out all over the place with no back up bases as good as the green or red.  and with the city so close to the front.  only two choices I see is always defending italy or retaking italy and try to push back on spain.

having said all that, I hope it makes it into the rotation.  would be fun to try something new. and it would be fun to say let's attack, italy or russia, dont worry about france they will give up. will give a bit of life to the game.


semp

[Volron]

If I could suggest something: GV Spawn between 98 and 70, GV spawn between 95 and 108.  Blue appears lacking in support in those regions.

I have to agree that the Cities are a bit close to the front: 106 to London; 46 to Rome, 16 to Berlin which is probably the worst as it appears to be the closest airbase to a city.  Looks to be just a sector away vs the other bases to Cities I mentioned.

[mERv]

If I could suggest something: GV Spawn between 98 and 70, GV spawn between 95 and 108.  Blue appears lacking in support in those regions.

I have to agree that the Cities are a bit close to the front: 106 to London; 46 to Rome, 16 to Berlin which is probably the worst as it appears to be the closest airbase to a city.  Looks to be just a sector away vs the other bases to Cities I mentioned.

that is no different than buzzsaw in regards to city distance. Strategic placement of critical strat factories does not always need to be in the back of the map. Allowing for quick resupply would be the answer in this case. Something buzzsaw missed. Other strats such as AAA and Ords strats are not as easily attacked.

As far as semps concerns go I do not think the "green" country is as fortified as he perceives. Just as easily as you can reinforce those bases, they will fall just as quickly under the right conditions. This design can be seen throughout the map. If you can find the crease you will break it wide open for advancement. The flip side of the coin would be quick response flights which I don't see anyone complaining about. Although semp has tenure within the community he has not shown a great deal of real intelligence in regards to many things over the years including in-game strategy. Do not be dismayed by his opinion. As are all opinions respected he is no exception but he doesn't carry as much weight as many perceive.

The map looks great. If people want a perfect map look at northco and how that plays out. The perfect map gets rolled quickly. I would go out on a limb to say this is not a map that would last more than a day or two under the worst conditions. This map needs to happen. We need new blood in the AH veins flowing and this community as dedicated as it has been deserves the opportunity to run this map into the ground before we are denied another new map.

How would this map differ any from the map where one country starts holding the west and who's AAA and radar... hell even the city are easily reached? Forgot the name but it's the old map still in rotation.

+1 is my vote.

[Volron]

that is no different than buzzsaw in regards to city distance. Strategic placement of critical strat factories does not always need to be in the back of the map. Allowing for quick resupply would be the answer in this case. Something buzzsaw missed. Other strats such as AAA and Ords strats are not as easily attacked.

As far as semps concerns go I do not think the "green" country is as fortified as he perceives. Just as easily as you can reinforce those bases, they will fall just as quickly under the right conditions. This design can be seen throughout the map. If you can find the crease you will break it wide open for advancement. The flip side of the coin would be quick response flights which I don't see anyone complaining about. Although semp has tenure within the community he has not shown a great deal of real intelligence in regards to many things over the years including in-game strategy. Do not be dismayed by his opinion. As are all opinions respected he is no exception but he doesn't carry as much weight as many perceive.

The map looks great. If people want a perfect map look at northco and how that plays out. The perfect map gets rolled quickly. I would go out on a limb to say this is not a map that would last more than a day or two under the worst conditions. This map needs to happen. We need new blood in the AH veins flowing and this community as dedicated as it has been deserves the opportunity to run this map into the ground before we are denied another new map.

How would this map differ any from the map where one country starts holding the west and who's AAA and radar... hell even the city are easily reached? Forgot the name but it's the old map still in rotation.

+1 is my vote.

I have in no way said anything against adding the map, just some possible changes and possible issues.  To me, Blue has a "weak point" in the area's I suggested GV spawns be added, which does partially go with what semp mentioned.  As for pointing out the city strats, I still agree with semp, though I'm agreeing based of a strategic point of view.  City is tied to town down time, unless a change has been made that I've missed.  This is a possible issue, though I should've pointed out something that could be done to help with this, which I'll do now:

The city flak battery locations could be moved a little.  Green I'd nudge S from it's location; Red I'd nudge N of it's location; Blue I'd keep the distance but move it to N of the City.  Unless hitting the HQ does more than 5m of no dar, you could probably stand to take their flak batteries and move them to the city.  This is about the only thing that comes to mind, all the while keeping the good locations.  I really like that touch.    However, it does bring attention to one thing: Red's HQ.

Red's HQ should probably be moved to Northern Ireland.  At the very least it would be way too quick to sail B102 into range and shell it.  Blue and Green's HQ would require quite a bit of time to do the same.


Though I do have a question:  Is there a limit to how many flak batteries can be added to a map?  If not I'd suggest adding one or two more flak batteries around the city, and allowing the HQ's to keep theirs.

[guncrasher]

merv I was just answering a question. and like I said hope it makes it into the rotation. it will be fun to play in it.


semp

[oboe]

I just think it's awesome that we even have a map like this to discuss the fine points of MA map design and strategies.   

To Semp's point about Green having bases close together, I think Red actually has the most dense base spacing.  Look again and see if you don't agree.  But Green does have the advantage of interior lines, while Red's overall shape is a bit like an 'S'.   Blue also has interior lines but it is sort of 'hollow', with base density probably the least of all.   Yet, it might be able to use its fleets as a 'mobile reserve' to bolster hot spots when the action gets heavy.

As far as adding additional Flak Bases, this was a discussion point in the map development thread here:
https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,404260.30.html

We've gone from zero Flak Bases per strat to two per strat, and then back down to one.   I flew a heavy bomber sortie over Berlin (Green City strat) and was impressed with the reasonable amount of flak thrown up by one base, however I don't know if the accuracy and lethality are different offline than they are online.  My buffs were rattled but not damaged by the offline settings.

I think the differences between the countries are interesting - Green is a classic land power, with difficulty projecting sea power.  Its strength maybe its large land area and interior lines of communication (resupply).  But it's fleets will basically be on their own if they make it out. 

Blue is a sort of the opposite - its core is largely water, with bases ringed around the edge and spread sparsely in the central area.  I really don't know how that will play out in the MA, a couple people suggest here Blue has the weakest and that might be true, but it also might be very difficult for other countries to get established footholds.   It's strat targets are pretty safe in the rear.

I see Red as sort of in between - its got an unusual shape overall, with three different land areas containing supporting bases.  Red fleets can operate in the North Sea and the Atlantic under an umbrella of protection from land bases, unlike Green or Blue.  But it's strat targets seem to be the most concentrated and vulnerable.

Keep the comments coming, please.  I'm no expert in terrain design or MA strategic play so this is a learning experience.   Having a great time so far though.

EDIT:   What do you guys see as obvious opening moves for the countries?   Semp has mentioned Red should take Spain from Blue.

I see a large naval battle developing in the North Sea between Red and Green, I could also see Red making a drive on the Green port at Hamburg (P44) to bottle Green up in the Baltic.

I can also imagine a really costly sea battle in the Aegean as the Green fleet tries to break out of the Black Sea and the Blue fleet based at Taranto moves to intercept, with both fleets subjec to air attack from nearby land bases.

Really anxious to see how this map plays out a few times, and I hope it lasts very at least a couple of days when its up (if it makes it into the rotation, of course).

 

[Spikes]

I think the GV spawns will be a blessing and a curse. Take two maps for example: ndisles and bowlma. ndisles is a small, compact map with few bases but it can stay up for days due to the inability to be rolled from island to island by GVs. Eventually, you need a mission or a boat to jump to the next island. bowlma on the other hand, is a massive map with tons of bases and GV spawns connecting each island, yet it can't be rolled due to the sheer amount of bases.

A curse because it will be easier for the map to get rolled in off-hours, but you just have to hope it will be a blessing in taking some of those bases back.

It would be nice to see a mechanic where a map is ineligible to be reset for 24 hours, but I understand the complaints that would cause. I don't think there is any single solution to rolling, it just happens. I don't play in the MA a whole lot, but have played most nights over the last few weeks and I still don't think I've seen northco yet.