Purpose of FSO

[SlipKnt]

I simply can not be quiet about this any further.  If this applies to you, then it applies to you.  If this doesn’t apply to you, then it doesn’t. 

I’m going to go on record and say that this is my own personal opinion and in no way reflects the opinions of the CM team.

The purpose of doing FSO is to attempt to create a semi realistic battle of 3 frames in which each side is assigned a Commander in Charge to each side.  That CIC is then responsible to review the objectives and issue orders (a plan of attack).  Assigning aircraft and routes. 

Some put in an hour or two into it while others pour hours into planning and even fly the routes to simply ensure timing. 

All it takes is one person or one squad to go cowboy up, off mission, do their own thing and mess up the attack plan.  Often times creating unforeseen circumstances.

The last time I was assigned as an attack lead, a squad didn’t do what was tasked.  I’ve also been put up as lead for defensive strategies only to have whole squadrons go do what they want instead of patrolling assigned sectors. After pouring hours into the plan, it takes my motivation away from doing FSO.  Not gonna lie, I’m on the fence about even keeping my account active.  Lately I’ve only had time for FSO. 

When I am responsible to be CIC I do my absolute best to ensure I get all squads in their requested rides and put forth a fun mission together.

All I ask is that every CO account for your squadron.  We all know when FSO is.  We all know we receive orders.  At least 2 days advanced notice we all know what ride we are in and what mission we are assigned along with which squadrons we are working on.

FSO has been around for some time now.  I think I’ve been participating since 2009 and I joined the CM team as a setup and bouncer CM.  I love everything that FSO is and I encourage you all do your part in recruiting new members.  Get more squadrons from the MA involved.  Volunteer to become a CM. 

I’ll just come out and say this.  Not that many know my circumstances and I don’t usually advertise this.  Most of you know me here in the AH community.  I suffer from severe PTSD, depression, & anxiety.  I even have a service dog being trained for me right now. 

I don’t appreciate being PM’d in SEA1 asking what ride their squad is in or what their mission is.  I am at that point that I detune text and just fly for my squadron and do my job when it is my rotation on CM duty. 

I do apologize that y’all haven’t really seen much of me over the past 2 years.  Ive been dealing with real life things and it should start to slow down in the fall for me finally.  Wife has been in and out of the hospital, oldest son came home from his first deployment in the US Marines and my youngest is shipping off to Temple University on a full scholarship this summer.  On top of all that I do a ton of volunteer work for veterans thru Combat Veterans Motorcycle Association. 

That said, I’m trying really really REALLY hard to keep interest and contribute to keeping FSO fun.  All I ask from you all is that you do your part as a squad CO, XO, Ops, etc.  Make sure your squadron knows what they are doing every Friday.  If you are assigned CIC, review the objectives and get the orders out no later than Wednesday night.  And when it comes game time, carry out your part of the assignment. 

Nothing is more discouraging to me in FSO than putting in the time to develop a plan and seeing squads not go by the plan.  If this is how we continue to conduct ourselves in FSO, I will simply walk away from it.  I have other things I can be doing than flying routes for timing and putting orders out. 

Again, this in no way represents the opinions of the CM staff.  This is my personal opinion and current struggle to get remotivated in FSO.

 

[Arlo]

Good luck to you in all things, including this. Perhaps you might consider taking the weight off your shoulders for a few FSOs and just be a participating pilot. You might also consider some major delegating when you are CiC. In any case, I completely sympathize. I've been thinking about returning to the flock and flying events again. I have some physical issues cropping up, as well (vision, mainly - when it comes to AH). If I end up in a 'command' position somewhere up or down the chain I may likely find myself not flying but managing (or trying to).

Here's to things be better. 

[Devil 505]

You rock, SlipKnt. Couldn't agree more.

 

[RichardDarkwood]

'Some put in an hour or two into it while others pour hours into planning and even fly the routes to simply ensure timing'

I put 30 minutes into making orders, 35 if i attach a map. I find it crazy that you guys are flying routes and putting that much time into it. And i can say that because every time i am CiC the side i am on at the time does really well. That's because i assign the rides and leave the game plan up to the squad leaders. As unconventional as that is it works.


People even got two accounts using one account as a scout plane.


This game has changed a lot since i have been gone and the people in charge have changed as well.

[SlipKnt]

"This game has changed a lot since i have been gone and the people in charge have changed as well."

You are correct.  It has changed.  The CM Staff has become too lenient.  It used to be, the squads that didn't want to play in the sandbox with the others were banned from participation if they displayed a pattern of not following orders.  They would also get muted or banned for language.  I also recall times a squad would get banned for behavior on the BBS.  Over the past 4 years, the CM Staff has attempted to cater to the masses because we felt the numbers were too low.  We even allowed for walk-ons to participate when it used to be a hard "NO" back in the day.

We get out of FSO what we pour into it.  Sometimes, the lazy way works.  Simply assigning targets and defenses and planes is all you need.  I have done that in the past and it does work sometimes.  Some people prefer to lay out the mission if multiple squads are involved.  The amount of time doesn't matter until a squad doesn't go with the plan and decides to do their own thing. 

Certain scenarios do require a coordinated attack (eg. if one side is attacking and one is defending).  Sometimes there is a need to develop a strategy utilizing tactics and timing. 

That isn't my point though.  My point is that when a CIC sends orders, it is our duty as FSO participants, to follow the orders.  We all take turns in the CIC seat.  The CIC is "in charge".  The CM Staff are merely referees for the event. 

Simply put, if we can't follow orders, perhaps we shouldn't participate in the event.  The format of FSO hasn't changed since I started participating in 2009.  Sides are assigned.  CICs are identified.  Objectives are sent.  CICs develop the orders and send them by Wednesday night to their respective sides (gives squadrons the ability to practice / rehearse their role or train in advance if they choose to).  Some squads are more serious than others with regard to FSO.  Personally, I don't care if a squad is serious or just clowning and having a good time.  It's what we do.  What I do care about is that each squad has the consideration to perform the task they are assigned.  Whether it is a detailed plan or not.  We receive the orders early enough in the week that all squads should have enough time to finalize the plans.  If you disagree with the plans, you take it up with the CIC on Thursday and even early on Friday.  But not at launch or enroute to target.   

Understand where I am coming from.  We're friends.  In fact, we're all friends here.  This is a conversation I feel needs to be discussed though.  For the sake of the future of FSO. 

 

[captain1ma]

JG54 puts in a lot of time and Effort into orders as well. nothing frosts my arse more then someone disregarding them and "doing their own thing". it total fouls up my plans, and when things dont play out, it gives me that much more reason not to participate. maybe i take it too seriously, but i wish people would atleast respect the plans ALL CiC's put together.

[SlipKnt]

Good luck to you in all things, including this. Perhaps you might consider taking the weight off your shoulders for a few FSOs and just be a participating pilot. You might also consider some major delegating when you are CiC. In any case, I completely sympathize. I've been thinking about returning to the flock and flying events again. I have some physical issues cropping up, as well (vision, mainly - when it comes to AH). If I end up in a 'command' position somewhere up or down the chain I may likely find myself not flying but managing (or trying to).

Here's to things be better. 

Thank you, Arlo.  That means more to me than you know. 🤘

[swareiam]

 

Slip! Well stated my friend.

But just to summarize.

1) Squad COs review the orders before entering the SEA.

2) Get your squad in colors.

3) Sound off to the CiC that you are ready and "Ready" to follow the communicated orders.

4) Prior to one hour before fields open if you do not understand or like the orders there is an opportunity to communicate and reach an understanding. After that time, keep your peace and follow the guy in front of you. Please DO NOT disrupt the CiCs briefing or the mission as a whole.

5) If there is a complaint. Complain after the frame is over.

As an FSO squad CO you are bound and tied by duty to the rules that you read to sign your team up. The CO keeps his squad in line and having fun. The CO does not disrupt play or cause the CiC any trouble. He also executes the orders that he has been given to the best of his ability and as close to their original intent as possible.

There will be infractions of rules, by just about everyone, hopefully small. But they will be dealt with by the Host CM and the bouncer. Then we get back to having fun.

Thanks again Slip. 

Salute to FSO community. Keep great tradition alive.

 

[RichardDarkwood]

'You are correct.  It has changed.  The CM Staff has become too lenient.  It used to be, the squads that didn't want to play in the sandbox with the others were banned from participation if they displayed a pattern of not following orders.  They would also get muted or banned for language.  I also recall times a squad would get banned for behavior on the BBS.  Over the past 4 years, the CM Staff has attempted to cater to the masses because we felt the numbers were too low.  We even allowed for walk-ons to participate when it used to be a hard "NO" back in the day '


I don't know if you have noticed but the numbers in this game we all love are dropping. I have had numerous people join my group over the past year to try out FSO. Some have stayed and some not. I am still trying to get more people in FSO from the MAIN ARENA but it's not as easy as one might think.

[Shrike]

JG54 puts in a lot of time and Effort into orders as well. nothing frosts my arse more then someone disregarding them and "doing their own thing". it total fouls up my plans, and when things dont play out, it gives me that much more reason not to participate. maybe i take it too seriously, but i wish people would atleast respect the plans ALL CiC's put together.

Agreed.  There is plenty of "fog" inherent with our battles but it is frustrating when this adds to the "fog".  Not sure of the reasons but there are probably many.  Some of the best FSO frames are when the squad executes successfully on a mission with long odds which required teamwork with other squads.

[WxMan]

'Some put in an hour or two into it while others pour hours into planning and even fly the routes to simply ensure timing'

I put 30 minutes into making orders, 35 if i attach a map. I find it crazy that you guys are flying routes and putting that much time into it. And i can say that because every time i am CiC the side i am on at the time does really well. That's because i assign the rides and leave the game plan up to the squad leaders. As unconventional as that is it works.

And your claiming credit for any victorious frames?  What you do as a CiC is very minimal and next to nothing.  FSO is different from the MA, in that it requires strategic planning to accomplish the goal, and you leave all that heavy lifting to the squadrons.  IMO it the height of laziness in a CiC.

[SlipKnt]

“I don't know if you have noticed but the numbers in this game we all love are dropping. I have had numerous people join my group over the past year to try out FSO. Some have stayed and some not. I am still trying to get more people in FSO from the MAIN ARENA but it's not as easy as one might think.”

Agreed!  It isn’t easy.  And personally, I truly appreciate your effort in building a formidable FSO squad.  Keep at it!!!

 

[RichardDarkwood]

, in that it requires strategic planning to accomplish the goal, and you leave all that heavy lifting to the squadrons.  IMO it the height of laziness in a CiC.

You know what they say about opinions....

[RichardDarkwood]

And your claiming credit for any victorious frames?  What you do as a CiC is very minimal and next to nothing.  FSO is different from the MA, in that it requires strategic planning to accomplish the goal, and you leave all that heavy lifting to the squadrons.  IMO it the height of laziness in a CiC.

What i do keeps the drama from happening as described by the original post stated. There is no drama.

There is an objective and however that objective is completed is not as important. We all have the same goals.


To sit around and whine about what the other guy is doing is equivalent to rearranging the furniture on the Titanic as it's sinking.



If my squad of 7-9 guys isn't wanted or needed in this event then you just say the word and we'll stop showing up, and we'll stop bringing new players into FSO. And I don't mean new to the game players either, I mean players that have been in this game for a while but avoid FSO because of the whining and crying over little things. This has already driven away the XO of the squad so you all let me know if you want to rest to disappear.

[Devil 505]

What i do keeps the drama from happening as described by the original post stated. There is no drama.

There is an objective and however that objective is completed is not as important. We all have the same goals.


To sit around and whine about what the other guy is doing is equivalent to rearranging the furniture on the Titanic as it's sinking.

I don't think it's that simple. If a squad disregards an organized plan they are a part of, they are likely to negatively affect the plan for all squads involved. If there is no plan; by all means, go nuts with your own ideas. We all know these nights happen.

I'll give you an example from my own experience where a squad YOLOing it on a mission only succeeded in getting every attacker killed before the target.

My squad and this other unit I'll refer to as Brand X were tasked with attacking an airfield with 190F-8's. The plan called for both squads to attack NOE from opposite directions at roughly the same time, KN from the north and Brand X from the south. The idea being that if one squad was unlucky enough to be spotted before reaching the target, the defending fighters would be dragged in that direction and opening the door for the other squad to have a cleaner run.

Instead of following the path in the orders, Brand X took the straight path to target and pretty much every defender pounced on them as they reached target. They all died, no target was hit, and now my squad is flying into a low-level hornet's nest - with the expected result. We all died before the target. Several dead 190's for no points gained. Game over.