Bf 109 Variants- What's the Deal?

[Tig]

So I've been learning the 109 in preparation to fly with Kommando Nowotny for the Dunkirk FSO. In the course of a few days I've brought my kill ratio in the Bf 109G-14 very close to my Spitfire Mk 16 kill ratio. This is my relevant kill ratios as they stand now:

Spit 16- 0.77/1
Bf 109G-14-  0.71/1
Bf 109K-4- 0.58/1

Yeah they're still negative, but it could be worse.

But anyway, the topic of this thread is pretty straightforward. What are the key differences between the 109 variants?

I know the Emil was the early version, the F was streamlined and way more turny, and the G gave B-17s a lot of hell. I've also heard the K-4 accelerates the fastest, and I checked in my books and sure enough, it has a hotter engine. Oh, and I know the K model can't carry as much ordnance/weapons as the G-14 in-game.

But that's as much as I know about the different 109s.


 

[Devil 505]

Here are the only constants between all the 109's: the later the variant, the larger the turning circle. "Fighting weight" in all 109's is 50% fuel at the merge or less. Any additional weapon / fuel tank adds extra weight and drag permanently - even after dropping said bomb or tank. Choose your load outs carefully. Make sure you have your weapons separated so you can shoot cannons independently from machine guns.

The Emil's roll rate is trash, so use lots of rudder to accelerate the roll. Wing cannons have poor ballistics and small ammo loads. Get close before using them. But you have 2000 rounds of 8mm - use them early, often, and hold the trigger down. Turns better than most MA fighters but is below average or inferior in all other aspects. A try-hard's pick.

The Friedrich is much better than the Emil except in turn radius. The single cannon requires decent aim but can down most fighters with a burst of solid hits. 200 rounds can get you 5 or more kills without rearming if you are landing most of your shots. 1000 8mm rounds is still plenty for hosing at longer range and long duration. A nimble fighter on par with the other turn fighters seen in the MA.

The G-2 the best balanced 109 for MA use. Similar to the Friedrich, but trades some turning ability for speed and acceleration. Without gondolas, it occupies a great place in the MA hierarchy similar to the spit 9 - you can out climb or speed away from (and run down) any fighter that can out turn a G-2 and the G-2 can out turn any fighter that can run you down.

The G-6's close but inferior to the G-2 in all aspects except firepower. More weight, more drag, same engine. Weight distribution is also shifted forward, resulting a more stable gun platform and more predictable maneuvers requiring dropping the nose from high angles of attack - Rolling scissors, hammerheads, and tail slides. 8mm machine guns are traded for 13mm with less ammo. Now you need to be mindful of wasting MG's also.

The G-14 is a G-6 with even more weight and super WEP. With WEP on, it's a climbing monster - but it's a dog once the WEP runs out. Taller tail gives better rudder authority, especially at low speeds.  30mm cannon option is nice if you want more punch, but it's hard to hit with. Get close and use short bursts - 65 rounds goes fast! Be prepared to fly on the defense and get kills with snapshots on the overshoot. Or hunt bombers.

The K-4 is more streamlined than the G-14 and it's engine is very powerful even without WEP. But it's the heaviest 109 of them all. Barely average in the turns. This is the 109 to use when you need to get somewhere fast, just be sure you can fight with speed when you get there.

[Tig]

Here are the only constants between all the 109's: the later the variant, the larger the turning circle. "Fighting weight" in all 109's is 50% fuel at the merge or less. Any additional weapon / fuel tank adds extra weight and drag permanently - even after dropping said bomb or tank. Choose your load outs carefully. Make sure you have your weapons separated so you can shoot cannons independently from machine guns.

The Emil's roll rate is trash, so use lots of rudder to accelerate the roll. Wing cannons have poor ballistics and small ammo loads. Get close before using them. But you have 2000 rounds of 8mm - use them early, often, and hold the trigger down. Turns better than most MA fighters but is below average or inferior in all other aspects. A try-hard's pick.

The Friedrich is much better than the Emil except in turn radius. The single cannon requires decent aim but can down most fighters with a burst of solid hits. 200 rounds can get you 5 or more kills without rearming if you are landing most of your shots. 1000 8mm rounds is still plenty for hosing at longer range and long duration. A nimble fighter on par with the other turn fighters seen in the MA.

The G-2 the best balanced 109 for MA use. Similar to the Friedrich, but trades some turning ability for speed and acceleration. Without gondolas, it occupies a great place in the MA hierarchy similar to the spit 9 - you can out climb or speed away from (and run down) any fighter that can out turn a G-2 and the G-2 can out turn any fighter that can run you down.

The G-6's close but inferior to the G-2 in all aspects except firepower. More weight, more drag, same engine. Weight distribution is also shifted forward, resulting a more stable gun platform and more predictable maneuvers requiring dropping the nose from high angles of attack - Rolling scissors, hammerheads, and tail slides. 8mm machine guns are traded for 13mm with less ammo. Now you need to be mindful of wasting MG's also.

The G-14 is a G-6 with even more weight and super WEP. With WEP on, it's a climbing monster - but it's a dog once the WEP runs out. Taller tail gives better rudder authority, especially at low speeds.  30mm cannon option is nice if you want more punch, but it's hard to hit with. Get close and use short bursts - 65 rounds goes fast! Be prepared to fly on the defense and get kills with snapshots on the overshoot. Or hunt bombers.

The K-4 is more streamlined than the G-14 and it's engine is very powerful even without WEP. But it's the heaviest 109 of them all. Barely average in the turns. This is the 109 to use when you need to get somewhere fast, just be sure you can fight with speed when you get there.

SO THAT'S WHAT I WAS MISSING! I didn't notice how much heavier the late war variants were!

I just took a Friedrich up for a hop, and I got bounced by a Pony and a Gustav-2.
They couldn't even touch me.
Man the Friedrich's turning is addictive.

Then I switched to the Gustav-2. Climbed out to enemy territory, and sure enough I spot a Corsair upping from the field. He tries to attack my buddy in a tank, so I go to pure BnZ. We end up going head on, and he managed to miss his volley, while I planted a 20mm right in his engine oil. I'll account that to my nose weapons vs his wing guns, plus the Corsair's just a much bigger target than my Gustav.

Long story short, I gave him a brand new smoking hole in the ground. 
Yeah, I think I can get used to flying 109s.

[save]

Note: The G6 weight also increase due to it had better armor protection.

[DmonSlyr]

Tig, your enthusiasm reminds me of when I first started AH 17 years ago and wanted to be an air combat fighter.

Here is a write up of many things I have learned over the years to be better at the game, as well as a 109 write up I did. The game is as challenging as ever these days and fighter enthusiasts like ourselves have slowly gone away. These concepts below are more important than ever to be successful.
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Defensive loaded roll
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAi_TRAV4E8&feature=youtu.be

1v1 with skyyr -  really watch how I use ACM and timing to defeat him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdfF0kl-z_A&feature=youtu.be

This thread shows a great fight against a spitfire that BnZing me. Check out some of the tactics I use to evade him. Fight stops at 4 min and he ran away

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,379683.msg5055888.html#msg5055888

This thread is a great read on TIPS and TRICKS for any plane- go a few more pages over and I post added maneuvers. Spiral Rope and Spiral Dive
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,357092.msg4734128.html#msg4734128
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If I am the one BnZing and I over shoot, I'll snap roll to the right or left, depending on their position, and then do an emmilman over the top/ back of them. If they follow, pull another hard emmilman to really suck out their E. Then you can easily pull a rope.
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A little trick I like to use if I can, is to get all of your followers directly on your 6. If you can manage to get all the attackers on your 6, about 1000-600 out, then you can do 1 move on them and get them all to overshoot. That move is the one I showed you (barrel roll defense) this will possibly set you up for a quick snap shot on at least one of the planes. If you cannot get a shot. Quickly level out and attempt to get them back on your 6 and try again, or if they attempt a tight barrel roll you can get inside of it and out roll them, if 2 go up and one does a roll, stick with the roll around and attempt to get him. At one point the other planes will come back around and you will have to judge the timing of when to avoid them/force overshot while you are rolling with the other guy.
If these guys are good at keeping E then you will have a hard time.
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Basically the trick is when you are in a rolling scissors to the left and you just quite can't get around them. Right when the enemy is coming underneath you, pull up and instead of going back around to the left, yank yard right while you are going up, cut throttle and rudder (right) over to get snap angle shot. Its not a full roll. But it slows you way down and gives you  a chance to make a good angle shot. It will throw most off guard. It really only works well in the 109 so don't try it in other planes. Also if you happen to miss you can do it again. But be aware. It is a potential E killer.
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Nice post by Latrobe:

-Get your opponents into the same part of the air whenever possible. You can easily do this by extending for just a little bit. It's much easier to track and avoid shots from 2 planes coming from your 6 than it is to track and avoid shots from 1 plane on your 6 and another on your 12.

-Again, as above, getting them into the same airspace whenever possible will help a little here. You will save E if you pull 1 move and get 2 overshoots instead of pulling 2 moves for 2 overshoots. Fighting outnumbered is kind of like fighting someone with more altitude; you can only go offensive for a brief moment on the overshoots. There will be someone else coming in for a shot after his friend overshoots and learning these "windows" of opportunity is key. Keep up the SA and keep track of all your opponents and what they are doing. If a 190 comes screaming in at 400mph and misses, more often than not he's going to extend a bit to climb and come back for another pass. This gives you about a 5-10 seconds (depending on how aggressive he is) window of opportunity to deal with someone else before he comes back. You can take this time to line up a shot on someone, or set up to avoid a shot from someone else and then have a few seconds to take a shot on him when he overshoots before the 190 starts coming back in. If you find yourself running low of speed and unable to continue avoiding shots then you have to get some speed back somehow. The easiest way is to dive and give up altitude for speed. If you don't have very much (or no) altitude to convert to speed then your only hope is to extend to build speed up and slow climb if possible to gain some altitude to work with. This has the added benefit of getting all your opponents into the same airspace as talked about above, but sometimes you'll run into a group a pilots who actually know how to work together and just won't let you extend to build speed back up. It's vitally important to be able to read the fight early on to tell if these are just some random folks who are more concerned about getting another kill for themself or if they are buddies working together. If you can tell that these guys are working together then you're going to have the be extra careful fighting them and try to resist the urge to take any unnecessary risks (like trying to force a shot, target fixation, etc).

-Judging energy states can be quite difficult especially against opponents who are good at hiding their energy. Knowing their plane is an excellent start to knowing their energy state. Things like a zeke gets sluggish and starts putting himself at risk of breaking his own plane at around 350mph while a P-51 stays maneuverable up to 550 or so. The hardest part is trying to figure out if your opponent has cut his throttle to saddle up on you. I myself can't seem to stop dying to P38s doing this in their dive (   ) but knowing how fast he's SUPPOSE to be closing on you if he were full throttle will help you figure this out when you suddenly think "why hasn't he overshoot yet?" 

-As talked about above, try to learn the "windows". In a 2 on 1, let's say you in a 109K4 vs a Dora and 51D, you are engaged with the 190 in a turning fight when the 51 shows up high and comes diving in on you. You make your move against the 51, he misses, and zooms by climbing back up to his perch. You now have a window of about 5-10 seconds (depending on if the 51 climbs all the way back up or if he's more aggressive and turns back sooner) to now deal with the 190. Never be fooled by your opponent though and assume you have time because you think he'll climb. Check on the 51 frequently to see what he's up to. You don't have to stare at him to figure things out, just a quick glance will do. Is he still climbing? Has he reached the top of his loop? Did he dump his altitude advantage to turn back in aggressively? Is he attack me? If you have a shot opportunity on someone but you see a plane D1000 closing on you, abandon the shot and avoid the attacker. You may get the kill but you will die for it. You can always get another shot opportunity but you can't undo being shot down (well, you can reup but I think you know what I mean   )

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Neg-G Push's are a good way to avoid shots when you have cone on your six. Push down and use rudder to get underneath their nose. Getting underneath their nose is very important because it is a second that they cannot see you, You can change your roll and cut throttle to get them to overshoot. Once you are underneath the nose, change roll, cut throttle, pull up and do a loaded roll over the top.
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Heres another long post of me pointing out some different 109s and their abilities

The 109F- this is a wonderful plane and well balanced. It's climb, speed, and excel are the weaknesses. This plane can out turn spits and others. It handles stalls lovely. It's a super fun plane to fly. Although fighting against faster planes in the latewar will give it a hard time when the enemy gallops away. This plane is an excellent dog fighter plane. But again speed will hurt you when you are trying to get away from a large hoard.

109gG2 - This is the first plane with a lil bit bigger engine and better ammo load out. This 109 can out turn the later 109s but it is still slower than later ones. It can turn fight extremely well. Its a lil heavier so it doesn't have quite the looseness in turning like the 109f. I think the F model is better 1 v 1 and better balanced all around,  but the G2s better ammo load out could give it the advanage if it gets a shot and it can dive a bit better than the F.

109G6- So this 109 has an even bigger engine and climbs, excel, top speed, and ammo load out changes to 50cal which  is better. Now this 109 is right in the middle of performance in the 109 set. It's faster than the first 3, but doesn't turn as well. Its slower than the later 2 but turns a tad better.  I'd say besides the 109E, it is the toughest to fly.  It still lacks speed and excel in the latewar which causes it to get ganged easily like the first 3. It's views are little more tough with the engine callings, and it feels considerably heavier than the G2. IMO, the engine still isn't powerful enough for the weight of the plane, which can make it seem sluggish.

109gG14- let's just say this is the 109G6 but with the engine it deserves.  So definitely better excel, top speed, and overall performance. But it can't quite turn as  well as the G-6 It has the best ammo load out options of the set. It can turn extremely well and loves stalling. I think it turns better than the K4 and easily better than P38s  . This is my favorite 109 because it has an engine that can give it good performance for the weight. I mainly fly this over the K4 because it has a longer fuel load out and I like the ammo options. It can surprise most people in the virtical and can certainly give many turn fighters a hard time. It finally has an engine that can catch some late war planes, can get away from the hoard (sometimes), and can climb to alt faster to regain E during the fight. It loves the low and slow stall scissors.

109K- Obviously the best overall engine performance for the 109 set. While it is the weakest turner of the set (hardly), it can almost be made up by its ability to hang in the virtical for longer to capitalize on the rope. Its excel and climb rate is phenomenal. I'd say it's one of the more fun planes to fly in the game.  It has a short fuel load out and it's ammo load out is not favored entirely. Again, like all 109s the biggest weakness is the dive. It can catch most planes and extend away from most hoards. It loves stalling and stall rolling. It has great E capabilities and slow down capabilities. Most people get too low and slow trying to make the shot with the 30mm which hurts them and you must be extremely good at E control with the K4.

All of the 109s are great really, except for the 109E. The key is to learn how to manage E properly in vertical fights. The 109 is a vertical stall fighter. It's right in the middle of being a BnZ plane and being a TnB plane, this makes it difficult to land kills and be a "survival" type player. The dive really hurts the performance of the plane. You need to slash attack and pounce on planes. It loves stalling and loves slow scissors. Its almost impossible to flat spin unless during a looping roll you go left pull up and cut throttle too hard with rudder. It loves the stall roll and can flip over like you never seen. Always watch out for that overshoot! That's the planes specialty, especially the K4 with its 30!

Hope this helps!