Author Topic: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism  (Read 5887 times)

Offline Eagler

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Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« on: October 06, 2022, 07:08:53 AM »
Thoughts?

Please refrain from unsupported topics

Eagler
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2022, 07:36:46 AM »
There exists over 23,000 miles of pipelines on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.

Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2022, 08:09:00 AM »
In a nutshell?

There are at least a dozen likely suspects in the whodunit? .   Russians have done a full on press that it was the US and the Alt Right has continued to chug putins coolaid and produced some dubious narratives such as a P8 ASW plane dropped torps on the 4 different pipelines at one pass but the pipelines blew over the course of days.

In reality you can create a pro/con list for those dozen suspects with the most probable in my opinion being the US or Putin.  The Swedes announced today that they are certain the pipelines were sabotaged based on evidence collected but did not expand on what the evidence is.  So, as a factual observation, the lines were almost certainly sabotaged but there is no clear proof of whodunit and it's possible that will never be publicly known.

Offline Eagler

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Re: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2022, 09:26:58 AM »
Who is the only country in the world who stated they could and would destroy the pipeline?

Attaching the YouTube video I think would break the rules here...

Who has the ability?

Who has the most to gain?

See the USS Gerald Ford battle group in the Atlantic for the next possibility forced conflict imo

Eagler
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Offline RotBaron

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Re: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2022, 09:41:31 AM »
There exists over 23,000 miles of pipelines on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.

 :headscratch:

Relationship and/or significance to Nord Stream is?
They're casting their bait over there, see?

Offline Gogolinius

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Re: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2022, 10:38:34 AM »
Just a quick crash course on determining guilt when it comes to incidents involving Russia and/or Putin:

With any accusation they make, they're either already guilty of perpetrating the act themselves, or are about to be.

End of crash course.

Gazprom had the greatest motivation to do it, existing means by which to do it, and an open opportunity.

The Trumpist bootlicker opinion on this is as stupid as it is predictable.



Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2022, 10:54:37 AM »
Who is the only country in the world who stated they could and would destroy the pipeline?

Who has the ability?

Who has the most to gain?

Eagler

This isn't how critical thought works.  It's OK to say there are potential culprits and the pro vs con of each but it is another to loop together circumstantial evidence and conspiracy theory and declare as fact something that you don't have proof of being fact.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2022, 11:15:10 AM »
Nothing I say is referring to domestic politics or a domestic political party.



I feel 90% convinced it was the Russians.

Currently Russia is in a choke hold in Ukraine.  They are NOT winning.  The longer this goes on, the higher their losses, the more destabilized things get at home, threatening Putin’s rule.  As it is, he better be sleeping with one eye open and potato chips sprinkled around his bed at night.

In the current situation, the more young Russian’s he feeds into Ukraine is just throwing them into a meat grinder with no equipment and no training.  The majority of them will shoot their officers in the face and surrender the first chance they get.

Putin is desperate to shake up the current trend.  He is running out of oligarchs to toss out of windows.

1.  The Ukrainians are not willing haggle away their sovereign territory.  Would we?  If Russia had “liberated” Alaska, because it was always really still part of Russia after all, would we just let them keep it to avoid any hostility? 

2.  As long as the Ukrainians are determined to fight, the West is determined to support them with every weapon we can spare.  Those weapons are becoming more advanced and the Ukrainians are making good use of them.  The weaponry is allowing the Ukrainian bravery a chance to tilt the balance.  The sanctions are really just now starting to really bite.  (They take about 6 months.)  Putin is running out of runway.

3.  The West has been very careful and not given Putin the excuse he needs to blatantly attack vital supply arteries in Poland, etc.

4.  If he can not cut off those supply routes, he face an eventual humiliating withdrawal like Iraq’s forced evacuation of Kuwait.  It’s starting to look a lot like that, with rivers of retreating Russians carrying all the stolen consumer goods they could lay hands on.

5.  If the West won’t give him an obvious excuse, Putin will invent one.  Like the Germans faking an attack on the a radio station on the Polish border.

6.  With the West’s surveillance capabilities, I find it hard to believe a vessel delivered those explosives (even a sub).  More than likely it was an explosive laden “Pig” sent down the pipeline internally. Since the supply was going to stop flowing anyway. It doesn’t make any sense other than as a manufactured Casus Beli.  Either the West was going to finally boycott or the Russians were going to cut off flow in retaliation for sanctions.  Putin wasn’t really losing anything by blowing them up, but could claim it as a direct attack by the West justifying limited proportional attacks on supply targets in certain NATO countries that are supplying Ukraine.

Putin is willing to take a great risk to stop the supply of weapons to Ukraine because he knows the current path leads to his destruction.  He is willing to tip over the chess board and hope to find a better position in the chaos.  The West and Ukraine are winning.  They have no need to flip over the board.  They want the current trend to continue to play out.  It’s the loser that needs to take risk to try a reset.


 Remember.  Putin doesn't want Ukraine as much as he wants what's after Ukraine.  Poland, Romania, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania.  Ukraine was just supposed to be the staging area to jump off from.
 
Quote
The real show – the real war – comes after. The two most important gateways to the Russian heartland remain: the Baltic Sea coast and the portion of the Polish gap that lies in, well, Poland. Unlike Ukraine, the countries in question here – Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia – are members of the NATO alliance. And of the European Union as well.

https://zeihan.com/ukraine-the-war-after-the-war/

If they are not stopped in Ukraine, they will have to be stopped in NATO territory and that will cost American blood.  I'd rather spend the treasure and let Ukrainians kill Russians for us.

 

 





Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2022, 11:23:52 AM »
Nothing I say is referring to domestic politics or a domestic political party.



I feel 90% convinced it was the Russians.


You listed many of the "Pro" for Russia.   What is the "Con" for Russia?

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2022, 11:44:10 AM »
Who is the only country in the world who stated they could and would destroy the pipeline?

Attaching the YouTube video I think would break the rules here...

Who has the ability?

Who has the most to gain?

See the USS Gerald Ford battle group in the Atlantic for the next possibility forced conflict imo

Eagler

why not just type when usa said it would blow up the pipeline.
what exactly was said.  in a few sentences.

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2022, 11:50:03 AM »
You listed many of the "Pro" for Russia.   What is the "Con" for Russia?

Not sure I see many, which is why I lean toward the Russian's.  It's not just a "Last Man Standing" argument because there are so many affirmative reasons it benefits Putin. 

Cui Bono.

If I had to stretch...

Well, they are blowing up some of their expensive property.  But at this point Putin realizes that sanctions are never going to be lifted as long as Russia has troops in Ukraine and he can't withdraw now without being toppled from power.  So the pipelines were scrap metal to him anyway.  Early on he thought he could use them to spilt the coalition, but I think now he realizes that isn't going to happen.

I guess technically it may have been in NATO territorial waters so might be considered an attack on NATO risking giving the US an excuse to get more directly involved.  But I think it is going to be hard enough to prove that the West won't react without obvious proof.  Besides, if the Russian's want to destroy their property in NATO territory...hmmmm ok.  Now when he tries to use that as an excuse to drop a few missiles in Poland, that's not going to fly.

Why bother with the subterfuge?  Putin needs the fig leaf excuse so his population doesn't think he is recklessly expanding the war further.  He is just defending Russia!  They blew up our pipeline!  Remember the Maine!  Also he needs it to keep the support of India, China, SA, etc.  If he attacked NATO unprovoked, that might be a straw too much for them.  But if he can throw up a plausible excuse...

Oh and it explains all the weird nuclear saber rattling.  Like "I'm going to hit supply depots in Poland because you blew up our pipeline!  But don't escalate after that because we have lots of NUKES!"  He needs to hit the supply routes and intimidate Poland and others into ceasing assisting Ukraine.  He wants to limit the response by threatening nuclear escalation.




Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline -gg-

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Re: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2022, 11:52:42 AM »
I think it was the Russians too.

They want to divide NATO/Europe and the US. This is propaganda and an attempt to muddy the waters and put doubts in the mind of leaders in NATO and Europe.

They also don't mind having Germany freeze this winter. What better way to to all of this than to blow it up and plant the seeds that it was the Americans? Even if it's only in public opinion. Russia wants the public to view them as the white hat guys.
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Offline AKIron

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Re: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2022, 12:08:41 PM »
I'm inclined to think it was Russia also. They have plausible deniability since the US said it would "stop" the pipeline. Why would Russia do it? To show Europeans their need and folly in resisting.
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2022, 01:15:55 PM »
:headscratch:

Relationship and/or significance to Nord Stream is?

Nordstream wasn't mentioned. The Baltic isn't deep either with an average depth of 180ft.

Lots of miles of target pipeline in the Gulf of Mexico.

Offline Eagler

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Re: Deep Sea Pipeline Terrorism
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2022, 01:59:13 PM »
why not just type when usa said it would blow up the pipeline.
what exactly was said.  in a few sentences.

semp

Sure..not sure why I am surprised you can't search or just trying to get me banned...

"pipeline explosion baltic sea b1d3n threat"

Remove quotes change the 1 to an i and the 3 to an e..2nd video down

Eagler
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