Author Topic: Enigma codebreakers  (Read 354 times)

Offline Replicant

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Enigma codebreakers
« on: February 15, 2001, 05:02:00 PM »
Hi all

Just got back from a very interesting and highly entertaining lecture about the Enigma codebreakers.  I never knew a great deal before tonight but it really opened my eyes at just how complex this machine was!  What I didn't know was that a German soldier/officer sold some minor details of the Enigma machine to a French intelligence officer whom then sold the details to the Polish who would find the most use of this information.  This was around 1931 and over the years the Polish had deciphered the Enigma machine in basics.  With the impending invasion of Poland, the information was given to the British and French for further use in the war. Britain set up a centre at Blechley Park (sp?) and was the nerve centre for deciphering further transmissions in Europe/Atlantic/Africa etc.

Now, everyday they would have transmissions and owing to the complex Enigma code, they would have to try and attempt to break the code every night!  Amazing!  What did help was the capture of several Enigma machines, notably three from U-Boats (the first from U-110 in May 1941 - first two caught were from Royal Navy depth charge damage, the third (?) was a U-boat surrendering to a RAF Liberator!).  Other captures included supply vessels carrying the most important pieces - the cog like gears/rotors that really made the code hard to break.  So, eventually with the help of a valve operated computer (first I think) with many similar style rotors inside (the rotor actually had wires through it and it was the current through these wires that created a different output (i.e. resistance=different bulb illuminated=code)).  This computer, Collosuss, helped the 'manual' decipherers with their work.

Anyway, I would highly recommend anyone going to such a lecture or reading the books... (some of the books are a little inaccurate because some refer to memories rather than hard fact/history etc).

One amusing thing was that the Enigma was patented in 1927 and 1931... in Great Britain by the German's!

I also got to play around with one after the lecture and I can now see how they work!  Great!    

Regards

Nexx

PS  I think there are about 126 machines left.

[This message has been edited by Replicant (edited 02-15-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Replicant (edited 02-22-2001).]
NEXX

Offline Jimdandy

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Enigma codebreakers
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2001, 04:08:00 PM »
Replicant you will like my post below called U-532? That sounds like a cool lecture.

[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 02-16-2001).]

Offline Ozark

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Enigma codebreakers
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2001, 04:55:00 PM »
You lucky dog! I wish they would have a lecture about the Enigma codebreakers here at the University of Missouri. Most of my information on the subject has come from a few articles I've read and the History Channel. Wow...I would love to see one!

LOL...it was amusing that the Enigma was patented in 1927 and 1931... in Great Britain by the German's! Never knew that.  

<S> Thanks for the information.

Ozark

Offline Replicant

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Enigma codebreakers
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2001, 05:58:00 PM »
Thanks Jim Dandy, nice post about the U-boat!  
NEXX

Offline Jimdandy

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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2001, 06:03:00 PM »
Yeah I found it by accident. I thought it was pretty neat too.

Offline Jekyll

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Enigma codebreakers
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2001, 07:09:00 PM »
Or see a virtual enigma machine at work at this url:
 http://www.ugrad.cs.jhu.edu/~russell/classes/enigma/



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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11

Offline Jimdandy

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Enigma codebreakers
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2001, 07:49:00 PM »
Cool Jekyll thx.

Offline Replicant

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Enigma codebreakers
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2001, 09:07:00 AM »
Nice Jekyl.

The early Enigma's had 3 rotors installed (from a choice of 5).  Later Enigma's had 4 rotors installed (from a choice of 7).  Each rotor was numbered and the Enigma machine receiving the transmission had to have the exact same rotors in the same position (you could choose rotor 1, then 4 and 5 for example and then install them in either 123, or 321, or 132 etc positions).  Also the 'Schtecker' (sp?) board (plug board) also increased the computations and again the receiver would have to have the same plugs selected.  Of course the both machines would have to start with the rotors in exactly the same position and it's this which made the Enigma code so hard to break.  Luckily for us the first transmission would be, for example, A D U A D U which would tell the other Enigma machine what to set it to.  The virtual enigma machine doesn't show where this would be - where the numbers are next to the rotor, they should actually be letters A-Z.

Okay, for a test, go to the virtual enigma page (Jeykll's post).

1  Leave plug board set to default
2  Select "Rotor Type" to 1 2 3 at the bottom
3  Ignore 'Initial Position', we'll do this the correct way.
4  Using the up/down arrows next to the rotors at the top, select rotor 1 to 5; rotor 2 to 9; rotor 3 to7.
5  Now get a pen and paper ready.
6  Okay, now type in this 'UASAR'
7  Normally you'd write this down as you go along, but the virtual one records this for you.  If you've set the machine correctly you should get 'HELLO'.

What did you think?  Pretty good eh?  The virtual one shows 9 types of rotors at the bottom, but as mentioned above, only 5 would be supplied with each Enigma machine (of this type).  The real Enigma didn't have numbers at all, so again, only thing wrong is that it should be letters next to the rotors not numbers.

Have fun!

Regards

'Nexx'

[This message has been edited by Replicant (edited 02-17-2001).]
NEXX

Offline Sundog

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Enigma codebreakers
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2001, 03:29:00 PM »
Sort of along the same line of thinking as this thread (Wish I could have been at that lecture! and cool engima link!) have any of you read Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson? It brings up the interesting fact of, once you have broken the 'code' how do you use that information without letting your enemy know that you have broken the code? It really gets interesting then.

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Offline Jekyll

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Enigma codebreakers
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2001, 04:46:00 AM »
Yup, the story of the breaking of the Enigma codes is definitely one of the most interesting of WW2.  I recently read the book 'Enigma', by Robert Harris.  Surprisingly, it is a pretty factual account of the trials and tribulations of breaking the 'Shark' cipher used to control the Atlantic U-Boats.

You ever heard of Fasson and Glazier?  Nope?  Well they were two British seamen who drowned after forcing the U-559 to the surface, boarding her, and capturing the boat's short weather code book.

Now, the short weather code book was used to transmit weather reports from the U-Boats to the Naval weather stations on a daily basis.

The significance of capturing the code book was that the weather stations only used 3 rotor enigma machines, whilst the U-Boats and their HQ transmitted using 4 rotor enigma settings.  To transmit to the weather stations, the U boats simply left their 4th wheel in a neutral position.

Since the allies now had a short weather code book, they could read the weather traffic from the U boats to the weather stations.  More importantly, this gave them 3 out of the 4 rotor settings used in transmitting HQ orders to the U-Boat wolfpacks.

The rest, as they say, is history  

BTW nexx, was the lecture by Tony Sale?  If so, you really should check out his web page at  http://www.codesandciphers.org.uk/lectures/index.htm

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When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11

[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 02-24-2001).]

Offline Replicant

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Enigma codebreakers
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2001, 11:58:00 AM »
Hi

No it wasn't Tony Sale, in fact I never did find out the guys name - he didn't even tell us!!  It was at a local art theatre and for £6-50 it was too tempting to resist!

Yes, he did mention the two sailors that were drowned.  Three sailors rushed over to the sub to try and salvage any thing that could be of use before it sank, even though none had even been in a sub before.  The damaged hull just let too much water in and two were trapped inside whilst the third (a 17 or 18 year old) managed to escape.  I think the papers you describe were part of the 'U-Boat Captain's Handbook' and it is in print in the UK - there were a few on sale at the lecture.  Incidently, the enigma machine on this U-Boat was of the four rotor variety and was probably the most important of all captures.

Regards

Nexx
NEXX

Sorrow[S=A]

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Enigma codebreakers
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2001, 01:26:00 PM »
What has always intrigued me is how we obsess about how we brokr the enigma code- yet ignore the fact that the Germans broke most of our codes much quicker and more reliably.

For most of the war the germans had a complete conversion of all the RN codebooks and a set of the codes for the US navy as well, nothing was sent that they didn't interpret.

More shockingly in N africa rommel during the entire desert war had complete transcripts of all information sent to england. Many of his biggest successes there were done because of churchills emphasis on micro-management from england allowed stunning amounts of information to come into his hands, you didn't think the allies ran into 88's with range markers for accurate shooting in the middle of the desert by accident did you?

As well is the amazing amount of information gained by listening to US ambassadors. The US civil service code had been broken since 1938 yet was still used until 1944. Amazing how much they learned by listening to this!

It's more notable also that the German navy oftened allowed quick code breaking by persuing absurdly stupid rituals that allowed the USN and RN to make theirs harder by avioding. IE: The Uboats sign in signature would consist of the same 6 lines in every communication....  neither allied service made theirs as easy to break even though the germans had the full code.\

Sorrow