CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*

[Maverick]

The loss of the aircraft is bad enough but the loss of all on board both is simply terrible. I feel for all the families involved. At least no one on the ground was injured / killed. One day soon I am sure there will be no more relics like those being flown and only static displays left.

 

[oboe]

Six people confirmed dead.

https://www.npr.org/2022/11/13/1136346487/dallas-airshow-midair-collission-fatalties

Arthur Alan Wolk is a Philadelphia aviation attorney who flew in air shows for 12 years. After watching the air show video and hearing the maneuvers described as "bombers on parade," Wolk told The Associated Press Sunday that the P-63 pilot violated the basic rule of formation flying.

"He went belly up to the leader," Wolk said. "That prevents him from gauging distance and position. The risk of collision is very high when you cannot see who you are supposed to be in formation with and that kind of join up is not permitted."

He added, "I am not blaming anyone and to the greatest extent possible air shows, the pilots and the aircraft that fly in them are safe. Air shows are one of the largest spectator events in America and it is rare that a tragedy like this occurs."

Wolk said it takes extensive training and discipline to fly in an air show setting. The air show qualifications of the P-63 pilot are not known.

The FAA was also launching an investigation, officials said.

[Tig]

I can't really say much, this is too tragic for words to adequately express. As someone who works in the warbird community regularly, that could have been many people I know. I never got to see Texas Raiders in person, but I know that warbird crews are good people with real guts. I'm indeed very sad that six people and two aircraft have been lost, I know they will be missed greatly.
I actually would have been there yesterday had I not been at my high school robotics/drone team competition.

 

[Vraciu]

Six people confirmed dead.

https://www.npr.org/2022/11/13/1136346487/dallas-airshow-midair-collission-fatalties

I'm not convinced he was forming up with the B-17.   He was way too fast for that.   He was clearly pacing the two Mustangs at the same interval as #2 was with Lead.    The formation briefing would tell us who was supposed to do what.

[DmonSlyr]

Wow, this is just heartbreaking 

[Oldman731]

I'm not convinced he was forming up with the B-17.   He was way too fast for that.   He was clearly pacing the two Mustangs at the same interval as #2 was with Lead.    The formation briefing would tell us who was supposed to do what.

Will be eager to hear about that.  Given that he was diving at the time, I have trouble thinking that he simply didn't see a B-17.

- oldman

[Vraciu]

Will be eager to hear about that.  Given that he was diving at the time, I have trouble thinking that he simply didn't see a B-17.

- oldman

I think he was in a steep bank to stay with the Mustangs and just lost some altitude while looking outside. 

I've seen a "duck under" from the left rear [crossing left to right] of the B-29 by two Zeke replicas over the years when recreating the bombing of Japan, but the BUFF was a bit higher. 

I'm still of the belief that he was not expecting to be near the bomber.   

The Bombers on Parade portion of the Airsho' goes back a ways.   Perhaps there is footage of it being performed in prior years that could tell us what was supposed to happen.

[Oldman731]

I think he was in a steep bank to stay with the Mustangs and just lost some altitude while looking outside. 

I've seen a "duck under" from the left rear [crossing left to right] of the B-29 by two Zeke replicas over the years when recreating the bombing of Japan, but the BUFF was a bit higher. 

I'm still of the belief that he was not expecting to be near the bomber.   

The Bombers on Parade portion of the Airsho' goes back a ways.   Perhaps there is footage of it being performed in prior years that could tell us what was supposed to happen.

Hope you're right.  Almost perfect pursuit curve.

- oldman

[Puma44]

Hope you're right.  Almost perfect pursuit curve.

- oldman

…without a visual.  The closure rate was way too high for a rejoin.  Appears he was watching other fighters and lost situational awareness of the B-17’s position.  Then, the gut wrenching sound of impact.

[Vraciu]

I'm not convinced he was forming up with the B-17.   He was way too fast for that.   He was clearly pacing the two Mustangs at the same interval as #2 was with Lead.    The formation briefing would tell us who was supposed to do what.

…without a visual.  The closure rate was way too high for a rejoin.  Appears he was watching other fighters and lost situational awareness of the B-17’s position.  Then, the gut wrenching sound of impact.

We are in agreement here.  Puma has done plenty of join-ups in F-4s and so forth so he knows a thing or two in that regard.

I'll also pass along that I know there are deconfliction rules in place for the show.   An example is the Tora! Tora! Tora! Group's.   

Dive bombers (Vals) have a hard deck.  They pull out above the torpedo bombers (Kates) which have a hard ceiling.   Vals and Kates offset from the centerline to the right based on direction of flight.

The fighters (F4F/FM-2/P-40/Zekes) have a high orbit that they maintain.

The B-17 gets the show centerline for the one-wheel pass, also with a hard ceiling.

These rules are tweaked as needed based on airport configuration (single vs. parallel runways, etc.) but you get the idea.

I do not know the rules for the Bombers on Parade but I'm betting the fighters have a floor or offset--if not both.

[Eagler]

Peace to those they left behind

Eagler

[HL117]

Agree with V  don't think he saw him to the last second.


    

[Puma44]

Agree with V  don't think he saw him to the last second.


    

Not so sure he saw the B-17 at all, considering the high closure rate, steep angle of bank, and restricted visibility of the airframe. 

[Vraciu]

Not so sure he saw the B-17 at all, considering the high closure rate, steep angle of bank, and restricted visibility of the airframe.

Yeah, he was looking off to the left.  It was under his nose until he hit in any case.

Gawd, just a second or two...a few feet more or less....any small change...and nobody dies...

[CAP1]

i saw video of this the other day, and still can't comprehend how sudden that was.....or what the crew of the fort felt for that last couple seconds.