CAF B-17 Midair - Totally Destroyed - Dallas *GRAPHIC*

[Busher]

This will not end well

[Vraciu]

This will not end well

It's all good.  I'm just going to ignore the riff raff.   They speak from a position of galactic stupidity and ignorance.    I may not always see eye to eye with the professionals on here like yourself or Puma44, but I respect your positions regardless.   Hopefully the reverse is also true.    You can tell those [of us] that have from those [of them] that have not.   This has been a good thread so far, with the exception of an obvious two or three rabble rousers.

[100Coogn]

It's all good.  I'm just going to ignore the riff raff.   They speak from a position of galactic stupidity and ignorance.    I may not always see eye to eye with the professionals on here like yourself or Puma44, but I respect your positions regardless.   Hopefully the reverse is also true.    You can tell those [of us] that have from those [of them] that have not.   This has been a good thread so far, with the exception of an obvious two or three rabble rousers.

You should really try to control yourself.
No need for the insults.

Coogan

[Vraciu]

You should really try to control yourself.
No need for the insults.

Coogan

This coming from the guy that has chased me all over these boards for years slinging insults and innuendo.   

If the shoe fits...   

[Maverick]

I'm just going to wait for the NTSB report. Any discussion absent the actual evidence available to them is simply an exercise in what if. I wasn't there, I don't have access to all the information and I really don't care all that much about speculation.

[Puma44]

I'm just going to wait for the NTSB report. Any discussion absent the actual evidence available to them is simply an exercise in what if. I wasn't there, I don't have access to all the information and I really don't care all that much about speculation.

Good point.  Additionally, with many different experience levels, there are different opinions, which we are all entitled to.  That being said, there’s no need for the name calling from either side of the “discussion”. 

[LCADolby]

Just in passing conversation; Word is the Co-Ordinator called for the formation of 3 fighters to speed up and overtake the B17 causing a crossing flight path conflict with the B17 1000yard line to the 500 yard line or something similar.

[Shuffler]

Just in passing conversation; Word is the Co-Ordinator called for the formation of 3 fighters to speed up and overtake the B17 causing a crossing flight path conflict with the B17 1000yard line to the 500 yard line or something similar.

That is in the preliminary along with no discussion of altitude deconfliction.

[Puma44]

That is in the preliminary along with no discussion of altitude deconfliction.

Altitude deconfliction and never go belly up to another aircraft are the most basic requirements of flying multiple aircraft in close proximity.

[Vraciu]

Altitude deconfliction and never go belly up to another aircraft are the most basic requirements of flying multiple aircraft in close proximity.

And, as I pointed to early on in the thread, there were NO altitude deconfliction rules between the fast movers and the heavies in the briefing.   I find this flabbergasting in the extreme. 

No altitude offset AND a non-briefed showline crossover.    The Air Boss led them right down the primrose path on this one.   

[Vraciu]

Just in passing conversation; Word is the Co-Ordinator called for the formation of 3 fighters to speed up and overtake the B17 causing a crossing flight path conflict with the B17 1000yard line to the 500 yard line or something similar.

The fighters had a 40-50 knot speed advantage throughout.     The thing that was fatal was his directive for both groups to change showlines. 

That is inexplicable, particularly in light of the fact that no altitude offset was briefed.

[Puma44]

Just in passing conversation; Word is the Co-Ordinator called for the formation of 3 fighters to speed up and overtake the B17 causing a crossing flight path conflict with the B17 1000yard line to the 500 yard line or something similar.

It will, or is, falling to the air boss to explain this flight path change and the lack of altitude deconfliction.  Such a basic safety issue.  Curious as to what his explanation is for the change of flight path directive.

[fuzeman]

Blancolirio has a video out with the Airboss’s conversation.
No opinion on his conclusions and I know some don’t agree with his POV.

[Shuffler]

Blancolirio has a video out with the Airboss’s conversation.
No opinion on his conclusions and I know some don’t agree with his POV.

 What a shame. Very hodge podge from such a great and knowledgeable group as the Confederate Air Force.