Author Topic: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE  (Read 7544 times)

Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2023, 07:57:26 AM »
Right here is the flaw in your education, upbringing, background, culture, whatever it is: it is not our idea of argument or logic. It is not a case of equal preference of one thing over an other. The foundation of a rigorous argument was laid several hundred years ago and forms the background of millions on man-hours of work and thought. Those who use it have more to assert over those who don't. You can throw up whatever YouTube video you like or movie scene which 'explains it' but you have nothing convincing to say unless you accept the rules of the 'game'.

No that's wrong.


No that's wrong again. Even a premise (or a hypothesis) you've arrived at yourself must be treated with scepticism. It's just the way the mind of a homo sapiens flows. Having evolved in a cluttered environment it's a known predisposition which is therefore compensated for in the above mentioned workflow. It's just unfortunately that that shape of mind is vulnerable to this.

In general (UFOs, man-made climate change etc. notwithstanding) your sin is that you form an idea and gather evidence to support that idea, dismissing that which does not accord with your idea. In other words, you let your 'theory', your 'premiss' or your 'feeling' filter all of the 'data' you find in a cart-before-the-horse stylee. It isn't unreasonable to come up with a hypothesis and then validate it against other known phenomena and knowledge BUT! with the idea that you are trying to disprove it, not prove it.


I want to take issue with this point as it's teetering on the edge of an ad hominem argument which is disrespectful and you already criticised Captain Trips for doing the same. I am not a hater, nor have I forwarded my own thoughts on aliens. What I have been doing in this thread is showing you where your chain of reasoning is flawed and the implications of that.

Pertinent to this discussion:-

"Appeal to ignorance: the claim that whatever has not been proved false must be true, and vice versa. (e.g., There is no compelling evidence that UFOs are not visiting the Earth; therefore, UFOs exist, and there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. Or: There may be seventy kazillion other worlds, but not one is known to have the moral advancement of the Earth, so we're still central to the Universe.) This impatience with ambiguity can be criticized in the phrase: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". Carl Sagan (circa 1995).

It is bordering on primitive pre-religion to not be able to tolerate ambiguity. In fact there is quite a lot of that around and it's still far better than making 5h!t up to fill in gaps.  :banana:

I've actually taken an arguement and logic class. Was actually a really tough class. Who knew so much math was involved. In any case, there is no "Flaw my culture/background", as you wish to discredit my approach to reasoning and understanding... I'm pointing out how your approach to this particular arguement is incorrect because you are assuming the video is the hypothesis/theory rather than the proof being presented. In any case in court, if I have a video showing you stealing a peice of candy, the jury is going to believe the video is real. If they can identify you, they will use it to prosecute you, UNLESS, you can prove its not you or hire a forensic expert to prove it was created by AI. That would change the Jurys opinion, would it not? That's how it works man. Again, refer to the 911 film I posted. When has the media had to prove their footage wasn't the truth? They haven't. Its true because "that's the video proof they are showing us". It's being shown as truth, taken by the public as truth, therefore it is "true in the eyes of the public" because surely they wouldnt deceive us right? So this guy is trying to "prove" that they have deceived us in some way because he doesnt belive it. Do you understand that? So you can try to discredit my approach all you want, but I have shown here that you are merely trying to trick the audience by discrediting the way I present information so as the audience doesn't take the time to research the information I've presented. A clever way to keep people's heads in the sand rather than expand their understanding of the subject.

By claiming "muh youtube video" you disregard anything in the video and lump it into some idea that it shouldn't be acknowledged because it's "muh youtube video and they are all the same". See, you are acknowledging that you haven't taken the time to understand the information I have provided. Therefore, I have infact done more research to come to my conclusions that there is a phenomenon going on, and it's being recorded in human history. You are trying to discredit that by attacking the way I argue and present ideas or understanding of the information.

I don't just go into the subject believing it the way I want, however you have to start somewhere. If I believe I'm being lied to, I will research to find holes in the lie. I will also acknowledge what they are saying as in good faith, however If I am unable to find holes in their line of research than I will begin to accept that their presentation is infact correct. As with man made global warming, you and others are asserting their research is correct while disregarding any counter arguement/claim being made just like Bard did. You see, I never asserted that films were 100% the truth. I'm just throwing them out there so people can expand their thinking on the subject like I have and possibly understand that all of these different angles I am posting may infact lead some to do more research into the subject because through multiple examples its proven that there is a phenomenon. If you don't want to acknowledge that, it's your own problem and you can present data to counter it, rather than attack my arguement structure. Like Man made global warming, you can stand up there and present your "proof" and "truths" all day long, but people are still going to challenge that data and ask questions against that "proof" because that's how it works when it comes to "what is really truth and what isn't". Just because 10 state backed organizations throw something in your face as "truth based on the data" that doesn't mean it won't get challenged, and you are the ones not acknowledging counter arguements and simply writing every thing off in the same basket as "disinfo", to get people to not do more research into those claims. This is exactly what happened with Covid as well, where they even had to ban sources challenging them, so others wouldnt do more research agaisnt their "truth". Imagine that.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2023, 08:18:08 AM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2023, 08:32:29 AM »
An interesting fellow.  I'd have to go through his book or books, though, as his presentation is a brief overview of those.

I'd say he comes across very intellegent and researched. He has more interviews as well I'm listening to. I'm sure his books break down many examples of his findings. Probably worth a read.

Have you heard of a book called "Ring Makers of Saturn? By Norman Bergrun. Very interesting, and it's very expensive now.
He truely believed something was creating the rings.

Here's a great interview with him.
https://odysee.com/@PROJECTCAMELOT:d/project-camelot-norman-bergrun:2


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Offline CptTrips

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2023, 08:44:50 AM »


 :rolleyes:
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline FLS

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2023, 09:04:24 AM »
The video IS the "proof" they are presenting, lol. If I go into a pub and say "I've got a film of a UFO making crop circles". That's my proof. It lends far more "credibility" than me simply saying I saw one. I tell them, I saw a UFO making crop circles. Here is the "proof" with a video I took.  What else is the person going to show other than a recording? Again, refer back to my posts explaining this.

Yall need to go re-watch My Cousin Vinny.

You do know video can be faked, which is why it's offered as proof of things that aren't real. As you point out, it's more convincing. Watching a professional video of a fictional story written for entertainment isn't going to change my mind about the rules of evidence. You have to keep an open mind about these things.

Offline AKIron

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #64 on: July 31, 2023, 09:19:27 AM »
I trust some third party eye witness accounts and the Navy tic-tac videos are eye opening. I wouldn't buy stock in it without seeing for myself though.
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Offline nrshida

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #65 on: July 31, 2023, 09:22:15 AM »
In any case, there is no "Flaw my culture/background", as you wish to discredit my approach to reasoning and understanding...

Somewhere and somehow along the way you learned to favour the conspiracy-theory end of the spectrum, and developed your own tools to strengthen what presents as a coping strategy in an overly authoritative culture. Would be my guess. The amount of energy you put into this is suggestive. You seem to love it. You're sure you're right, and the notion you're onto something that most don't also see somehow empowers you - is a big clue here. You're more sure than I am about aliens and man-made global warning. Counterintuitively this doesn't mean you know more about it!

I can see we've already surpassed the point of further discussing this ad infinitum. Tempting to interpret others dropping out of the argument implying you are correct. I fear it's more the case of you continuing to shrink your credibility to the point of people just not giving you any feedback or reality-checks at all. Which is dangerous. To you. Just think about it*  :salute

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Offline AKIron

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2023, 09:23:49 AM »
Watched a "documentary" years ago about Roswell primarily. One thing that stood out quite loudly. The daughter of the base commander that investigated the '47 incident told her he was sworn to secrecy by the US President. If that's true it can only mean a coverup which demands scrutiny.

It was a long time ago I saw that documentary and I may have the facts wrong based on what I just found.  https://www.sbs.com.au/whats-on/article/my-father-saw-the-bodies-chasing-the-truth-about-roswell/thp111yiy
« Last Edit: July 31, 2023, 09:29:18 AM by AKIron »
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #67 on: July 31, 2023, 09:30:57 AM »
You do know video can be faked, which is why it's offered as proof of things that aren't real. As you point out, it's more convincing. Watching a professional video of a fictional story written for entertainment isn't going to change my mind about the rules of evidence. You have to keep an open mind about these things.

Sure, of course video can be faked and edited. But I am persistent to my point that why doesn't MSM have to provide more "proof" on their 911 films that suggest they weren't edited to manipulate especially when called out. It only seems that in this specific case, that any films whatsoever, no matter how many there are, don't provide any credibility to the non-believer. It's like if I took a video of a jet flying by. You'd say, provide more proof, but I showing you the video of my documented proof of a jet flying by. What more "proof" are you looking for? Proving that it's fake is the proof that the video isn't infact credible.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2023, 09:34:22 AM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #68 on: July 31, 2023, 09:35:40 AM »
I trust some third party eye witness accounts and the Navy tic-tac videos are eye opening. I wouldn't buy stock in it without seeing for myself though.

That is a proper attitude.

One issue on the Navy sightings. Whatever they are, many are obviously some kind of solid object in 3d space and there have been multiple near collision incidents.  Maybe they are so advanced they didn't see any danger, but from our point of view, they clearly present a potential navigational hazard.  They are not squawking a transponder, they are not in radio communication, they do not follow our airspace rules, do not respect our restricted airspaces and seem willing to make dangerously close approaches to military aircraft.  If for no reason than our pilots safety, we should get to the bottom of what they are.  They are a clear potential navigational hazard if nothing else.

I feel pretty convinced that it is not likely they are Russian or Chinese.  If it is DARPA, they are behaving really out of character.  Super ultra secret DARPA projects tend to try and keep a lower profile and not buzz fighter aircraft for the lulz, and joyride over nuclear installations.  So I don't know what they are, but we shouldn't ignore them.



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Offline FLS

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #69 on: July 31, 2023, 09:43:36 AM »
With 9/11 there are multiple videos, millions of eye witnesses and overwhelming physical evidence. It's not just one video. With the USN videos, the videos are likely legit but the actual objects are unknown. They could be classified equipment faults.

Proving a video fake would certainly discredit it but the burden to prove it's validity is on the presenter, not the audience. In AH you would would present the AHfilm not the youtube video as proof of an event. That is you the presenter providing the proof.

Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #70 on: July 31, 2023, 09:46:19 AM »
Somewhere and somehow along the way you learned to favour the conspiracy-theory end of the spectrum, and developed your own tools to strengthen what presents as a coping strategy in an overly authoritative culture. Would be my guess. The amount of energy you put into this is suggestive. You seem to love it. You're sure you're right, and the notion you're onto something that most don't also see somehow empowers you - is a big clue here. You're more sure than I am about aliens and man-made global warning. Counterintuitively this doesn't mean you know more about it!

I can see we've already surpassed the point of further discussing this ad infinitum. Tempting to interpret others dropping out of the argument implying you are correct. I fear it's more the case of you continuing to shrink your credibility to the point of people just not giving you any feedback or reality-checks at all. Which is dangerous. To you. Just think about it*  :salute

*What are the chances :)

I'm just posting interviews, presentations, films, and pictures by researchers from documented cases. That is where I get my understanding of the subject. Its not like I am making things up just to say it. I take the "conspiracy" side as you call it because the side that's supposedly the "truth tellers" are not being honest and it's been clear for 7 years if you haven't noticed...

BTW, do the top gun pilots who captured these UFO videos need to provide more "proof" that these videos are infact real? I mean, i don't see anyone on the stand asking "hey sir, can prove those videos are real"? Further, since it is actual Top Gun pilots who presented these videos to a congressional hearing, isn't that supposed to mean you agree with it since it's "official"? Or are you discrediting Top Gun Pilots in order to make me seem less credible?

« Last Edit: July 31, 2023, 09:47:56 AM by DmonSlyr »
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Offline AKIron

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #71 on: July 31, 2023, 09:51:13 AM »
With 9/11 there are multiple videos, millions of eye witnesses and overwhelming physical evidence. It's not just one video. With the USN videos, the videos are likely legit but the actual objects are unknown. They could be classified equipment faults.

Proving a video fake would certainly discredit it but the burden to prove it's validity is on the presenter, not the audience. In AH you would would present the AHfilm not the youtube video as proof of an event. That is you the presenter providing the proof.

Seems I read that the F-18 encounters with the "tic-tacs" were the result of being sortied to investigate multiple boat radar tracks over a period of a couple of days. That would rule out equipment failure I think.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #72 on: July 31, 2023, 09:53:25 AM »
 :rolleyes:
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #73 on: July 31, 2023, 09:57:16 AM »
Seems I read that the F-18 encounters with the "tic-tacs" were the result of being sortied to investigate multiple boat radar tracks over a period of a couple of days. That would rule out equipment failure I think.

In the Tic-Tac case including being visually examined by multiple aircraft and multiple trained pilots from different angles and altitudes over an extended amount of time.  There was some kind of physical object there, whatever it was.  It appeared to be controlled and moved with conscious intent.

Different cases may have different weight.  Some cases out there are probably equipment glitches, but incidents like the Tic-Tac are hard to dismiss.

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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
« Reply #74 on: July 31, 2023, 09:57:23 AM »
With 9/11 there are multiple videos, millions of eye witnesses and overwhelming physical evidence. It's not just one video. With the USN videos, the videos are likely legit but the actual objects are unknown. They could be classified equipment faults.

Proving a video fake would certainly discredit it but the burden to prove it's validity is on the presenter, not the audience. In AH you would would present the AHfilm not the youtube video as proof of an event. That is you the presenter providing the proof.

You should atleast watch the analysis of it I posted and then make a determination. Btw, I've always wondered why no outside video of the Pentagon showed a plane losing tremendous alt to hit the building. All we get is a split second of it hitting. You'd think they would have more film if they wanted us to be "sure".

In AH, you present the AH film to HTC as it's infact someone cheating. Then hitech analyzes the film and uses other methods to dispell that the person is cheating. Sorta like analyzing a film to see if it's been edited and faked in order to "prove" its not legit.
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