Author Topic: Poland  (Read 7477 times)

Offline Mano

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Re: Poland
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2023, 07:51:33 PM »
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Poland
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2023, 08:20:40 PM »



All gave some, Some gave all

Offline Volron

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Re: Poland
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2023, 10:17:55 PM »
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
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What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
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Offline GasTeddy

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Re: Poland
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2023, 03:39:04 AM »
please do not draw any conclusions about Poland based on what moron (President) and an idiot  (Prime Minister) say. They are a f....g disgraces and if it goes well, we'll get rid of them in month's time.

They are about as representative of population as Biden is representative of US citizen on this board... ;)

I'll write more tomorrow as it is getting late here.
contraption
I'm genuinely interested to read more, truly, why you think so. I spent some time this year in Poland, twice. Close to its eastern border saw some interesting contraptions, as well as in Slovakia.

Offline rabbidrabbit

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Re: Poland
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2023, 06:25:52 AM »
For some balance to what was said:

Poland:

We have signed contracts with Ukraine, such as those for the supply of KRAB gun howitzers, and we are fulfilling them. We have other agreements regarding, for example, ammunition and mine-clearing vehicles needed for the counteroffensive, about which I was asked by the President of Ukraine and about which I discussed with the Minister of Defense. I will be the first to oppose transferring new weapons that we receive from Korea or the USA. As we receive it, we will ease the arms currently in stock and perhaps transfer them to Ukraine, as we have done so far - President of the Republic of Poland
@AndrzejDudaMamy podpisane kontrakty z Ukraina, jak te na dostawe armatohaubic KRAB i je wypelniamy. Mamy inne porozumienia dotyczace chociazby amunicji czy pojazdów rozminowywania potrzebnych do kontrofensywy, o które bylem proszony przez prezydenta Ukrainy i o czym rozmawialem z ministrem… pic.twitter.com/6U2e1LUFEB
— BBN (@BBN_PL) September 21, 2023

When asked whether Poland is close to “breaking its alliance with Ukraine”, the Polish President simply responded “Are you kidding?”

\uD83C\uDDF5\uD83C\uDDF1\uD83C\uDDFA\uD83C\uDDE6 pic.twitter.com/2gTqa0yMFH
— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24)

I believe Poland and UA announced an agreement on grain that would protect Polish farmers so perhaps things are cleared up with Poland enabling other countries to support UA and keeping existing contracts while focusing on rebuilding their military.  Eagler, there seems to have been a bit of political tensions that came to the surface with elections coming up in 3 weeks for Poland and it seems to not be what you think it is.  That's my take by looking at what both Poland and UA are actually saying and how it compares to the pro Russian spin that some people mistake for news.

I look forward to Ski's thoughts. 

Offline Eagler

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Re: Poland
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2023, 07:01:21 AM »
Thanks fd ski and rabbidrabbit

I was hoping you would comment

Not sure why some think this conflict can't or shouldn't be discussed

It is the most important singular event happening today imo

I posted this after hearing the polish pres make the drowning victim statement which did not sound like they were going to support Ukraine going forward..or until the grain issue was resolved..

Polish people have gone above and beyond with the immigration

Just have to wonder if those that left Ukraine go back regardless the outcome

Peace ✌️

Eagler
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Offline fd ski

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Re: Poland
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2023, 08:43:40 AM »
for clarity. I'm USA and Polish citizen. I live in Poland (Warsaw) for almost 20 years now.

Ruling party

PiS has been in power for 8 years. They took complete power thanks to corruption scandal which seems to lead to some kremlin money/sources. Basically some recordings surfaced that suggested corruption in politics (wow !!!) which was enough to swing the vote. Guy who made recordings has been in business of importing coal from russia, with some sweetheart deals and shady history. Go figure.
As for our version of cleaning the swamp- nobody was convicted of anything and no proof of widespread corruption was offered. Brave crimefighters in charge are currently embroiled in a scandal where they sold visa's to poland ( and EU ) for 5k$ a pop to hundred thousands of people in africa and asia. Some of them ended up on Mexican border of all places.

In essence, our president is a puppet of the party with no opinion of his own. He's pretty dumb at that. Prime minister is an opportunist who tends to say stupid toejam when riled up.

Recently their standings in upcoming election polls are falling so they are taking hard turn right. PiS has always been a right wing party (with very left wing populist economic views) and always took care that nothing grows to the right of them. As it stands there is a new party - Konfederacja - (Confederation) which polls at 9-10% in some cases and can be easily grouped with Kremin sponsored parties all over the europe. It's a gathering of neo-nazis, nationalists, conspiracy theorists and free market extremists promising to "flip the table" which tends to resonate with some people. They are taking some of the PiS electorate with them, so PiS has to start being more nationalistic, more protective of "national interests" and so on. This is where "we have to take care of ourselves before we help", "we already helped too much" statements come from. They are aimed at local electorate, some of which views help to Ukraine with "why them before us" approach. Many of the same people are pro-russia or anti-ukraine, but keeping low as those things are currently not well received.

Population

People in Poland as some of the least sympathetic to  Russia you'll find on the planet. We can easily compete with Finns. Poland has a long history of animosity with Russia and most "first hand" experience with Rusky-mir. If any politician came out as "pro-russia" here, they would be pretty screwed. This is why they always wrap in nationalistic, pro-slavic bs instead.

If you hear anyone talking about Poland wanting some of the Ukraine or Belorus territories "back", i can assure you that such ideas never surfaced in local politics, i never heard of anyone advocating for this in any conversation. Such claims are nothing more then Kremlin propaganda aimed at creating false symmetry. People in Poland are looking west, not east. Last 30 years since joining west has been good to us, people can live a good life and only nutcases would advocate for some kin of slavic solidarity under a Russian flag. There are no ambitions for recreating historical greatness (Rzeczpospolita od morza do morza - Poland from sea to sea) those things are just too far in the past.

We are proud of what we did for Ukrainians when war started. Government was slow, didn't do much. What you saw on the news in 99% was just private people giving their roof, money or whatever. Personally i had a 5 people family in my house for 6 months. It was great, they even visited couple weeks ago cause we missed them :) There are still lots of Ukrainians living in Poland. They became a norm. While incidents might happen, in general it is normal and expected to hear Ukrainian language just about anywhere. They are not persecuted, kids go to school. There are still people helping. Poland has been under Russian occupation for great many years, while only some of us remember communist brotherhood at the end of the bayonet, most heard from their parents/grandparent etc. We'll be helping as much as we can.

Trade - peasant parties has quite an influence. As it is in states, seats in both houses tends to go with regions where in some less populated ones, much smaller group of people can swing the vote more. This leads to entire hoopla with Ukrainian produce. While price of grain went down ( which should be a good thing ) it causes some uproar in those areas and government had to "act". Mostly in self interest (reelection) but they still did. If you look at similar cases in other counties (Slovakia) in same case after initial sabre rattling, they quickly came to "agreement". Governments could show that they did something, but the right thing still happen.

Instability you might observe in news when it comes to Poland is down to incompetent leadership of our government. PiS is a dictator party - there is a one old man (Kaczyński) who plays conservative (always single, likely closet gay) but is mostly interested in ruling as long as possible. They undermined a constitutional process, staffed the courts with lackeys. For example - lady leading our supreme court was sanctioned from county court for incompetence. Many of our ministers are people with IQ barely exceeding their shoesize - but they are loyal to the dictator.

Pay close attention to the news in next  3 weeks in Poland. We have elections on 15th and lot of things hangs in balance. Regardless of the result, though, i think we will continue to support Ukraine. It is also in our own self-interest.

Sorry for the incoherent rant :) Hope some of it makes sense. If you have any questions  - feel free to ask.

 
 

Offline Oldman731

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Re: Poland
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2023, 08:53:10 AM »
We are proud of what we did for Ukrainians when war started. Government was slow, didn't do much. What you saw on the news in 99% was just private people giving their roof, money or whatever. Personally i had a 5 people family in my house for 6 months. It was great, they even visited couple weeks ago cause we missed them :)

*          *          *

Sorry for the incoherent rant :) Hope some of it makes sense. If you have any questions  - feel free to ask.


All of it made sense.  Thanks for this, and for being a good person, ski.

- oldman

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Poland
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2023, 09:33:57 AM »
for clarity. I'm USA and Polish citizen. I live in Poland (Warsaw) for almost 20 years now.

Poland has done a huge amount for the war effort.  It has punched way above it's weight.  They get it.  They know, unlike the pro-Kremlin Useful Idiots in the West, that Ukraine is just step one, and they will be next.  Along with Romania, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania.  They understand, unlike the Kremlin Jane's here in the West, that it is cheaper for everyone to stop the Russians in Ukraine instead.

Stupid politicians aside, the main contribution from Poland is their continued role as a supply hub and distribution point for supplies to Ukraine. 

The crappy Soviet-era equipment they have cleared out of their inventory and give to Ukraine is a small percentage of the aid given compared to US or Germany.  The main importance is to keep the supply conduit open.

If they are team players, they will have no problem replacing their old stuff they give away with new top tier stuff from the US.  We will facilitate that, if they are team players.  My guess is the politicians will realize the benefits of staying team players. Team players get access to all kinds of new toys.

Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: Poland
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2023, 10:13:25 AM »
for clarity. I'm USA and Polish citizen. I live in Poland (Warsaw) for almost 20 years now.

(clipped for brevity)

Pay close attention to the news in next  3 weeks in Poland. We have elections on 15th and lot of things hangs in balance. Regardless of the result, though, i think we will continue to support Ukraine. It is also in our own self-interest.

Sorry for the incoherent rant :) Hope some of it makes sense. If you have any questions  - feel free to ask.

Thank you. I appreciate the information, the intelligent discourse, and your compassion for the actual humans. You're a good soul.
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SaVaGe


Offline Eagler

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Re: Poland
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2023, 11:04:47 AM »
Howdy fd ski
Thanks for taking the time and providing that very thorough and thoughtful insight.

You and yours are truly a blessing

Crazy sounds like it is global these days

Hope yours turns out well in the coming weeks

Eagler
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Offline GasTeddy

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Re: Poland
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2023, 12:19:57 PM »


People in Poland as some of the least sympathetic to  Russia you'll find on the planet. We can easily compete with Finns. Poland has a long history of animosity with Russia and most "first hand" experience with Rusky-mir. If any politician came out as "pro-russia" here, they would be pretty screwed. This is why they always wrap in nationalistic, pro-slavic bs instead.

As a native Finn living nowadays in Bulgaria, I must say I believe that easily. We were  lucky enough to avoid being members of Warsaw Pack, as we rejected the invitation.

I've been visiting Poland more or less frequently since mid 80s, first in business and later on pleasure trips. Poland has developed enormously during those times and nowadays when I'm in there, it reminds me of Sweden at 80s. Nowadays Sweden, well, it's more Marrakesh during some armed conflict, but at 80s it was a great place. Neat, clean and all the services worked well. People are more reserved than here in Balkan Circus, but never met any hostility or unfriendly attitude. And those people making nowadays Sweden a gang war zone, they are missing. Those who have followed EU immigration policy and Swedens "everyone welcome"-attitude know what I mean.

Shortly, as my 12 years old son said on a way back from Finland with Jeep, "Poland is a great country".

Offline LCADolby

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Re: Poland
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2023, 12:40:48 PM »
I work with a lot of Poles and have a housemate who's from Katowice.
I can speak a little Polish and swear a lot, phonetically "Ya-pier-dollar Dupek, Kuva-match!".
They are some of the greatest, most hardest working people I have ever known.
I wish them all the best.
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Poland
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2023, 04:46:23 PM »
They are about as representative of population as Biden is representative of US citizen on this board... ;)

Isn't Biden a senile old fart? I think that's fairly representative of this place  :devil

Offline Meatwad

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Re: Poland
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2023, 05:40:19 PM »
Isn't Biden a senile old fart? I think that's fairly representative of this place  :devil

Uh oh, you spoke negative about biden. The self appointed forum watchdogs will report you for being a bully.
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