Poland

[Shuffler]

This isn't going to end well either way. 

My hunch is some "freak accident"  comes up, and things go the nuclear route.

Or we stop funding Ukraine and they eventually are overrun.  I don't want that to happen, but I have a lot more interest in my country, family.  How long can you really keep pumping money into it without ANY type of return?

.... or russians run out of victims to send to the front. 

[CptTrips]

How long can you really keep pumping money into it without ANY type of return?

Destroying the Russian military machine before it has the chance reach NATO is a bargain at twice the price.

And have no doubt the Russian military is in the process of being gutted. 

[Eagler]

Watch out lazer America first is pro Russia to some here...

Who will run out of men to throw into the meat grinder 1st?

I have no idea of the causalities on either side but it must be horrific.

How many would send Americans into Ukraine today? CptTrips is ready it sounds like...

I think it's an event that stirs us into action if that becomes inevitable ... seems headed that way to me

Eagler

[CptTrips]

How many would send Americans into Ukraine today? CptTrips is ready it sounds like...

You are of course lying, as usual.

Please provide the link where I suggested sending American troops to Ukraine.

[CptTrips]

Eat it, Boris.  And choke on it.

[rabbidrabbit]

Watch out lazer America first is pro Russia to some here...

Who will run out of men to throw into the meat grinder 1st?

I have no idea of the causalities on either side but it must be horrific.

How many would send Americans into Ukraine today? CptTrips is ready it sounds like...

I think it's an event that stirs us into action if that becomes inevitable ... seems headed that way to me

Eagler

Your assumption of "America first" is isolationism.  Most who believe "America first" don't because they understand that power vacuums get filled by less desirable options such as China. I have not seen anyone, especially not me be in favor of sending US troops to combat.  Enabling UA to defend itself with mostly second and third tier gear is letting them put their lives on the line to defeat Imperialism so we don't have to when appeasement predictably fails.

It's a shame you two are going to get the thread locked because the same conversation could be had professionally. 

[CptTrips]

Your assumption of "America first" is isolationism.  Most who believe "America first" don't because they understand that power vacuums get filled by less desirable options such as China. I have not seen anyone, especially not me be in favor of sending US troops to combat.  Enabling UA to defend itself with mostly second and third tier gear is letting them put their lives on the line to defeat Imperialism so we don't have to when appeasement predictably fails.

It's a shame you two are going to get the thread locked because the same conversation could be had professionally.

He wants it locked.  It's his only escape.  He realizes he is in the wrong and has no argument that will hold water, so he starts lying about what people have said to get a lock before he is made further fool of.

Next he'll tell me to jump on a plane and go join the front myself.  It's his usual tactic.

It shows he knows he is in the wrong and needs a way to save face.  Getting the thread locked is his escape hatch.  Wait for him to bring up ... senility if nothing else works.

Don't try and lie about my stated position or expect a response.  There can be no honest discussion if he is going to lie about my position.

My whole point is stopping Russia in Ukraine and degrading their military to the point it can't shift to  Baltic States or Finland so that American soldiers DON'T have to end up shooting at Russians.

Weakness only encourages the aggressor.

[rabbidrabbit]

He wants it locked.  It's his only escape.  He realizes he is in the wrong and has no argument that will hold water, so he starts lying about what people have said to get a lock before he is made further fool of.

Next he'll tell me to jump on a plane and go join the front myself.  It's his usual tactic.

It shows he knows he is in the wrong and needs a way to save face.  Getting the thread locked is his escape hatch.  Wait for him to bring up ... senility if nothing else works.

Don't try and lie about my stated position or expect a response.

If you both agreed to give the winning an argument on the internet a pass you would break the cycle.  Between that and valuing opinions more than facts lots of good discussions get lost.

So yes, you have a point with that but to what end beyond getting another thread locked?

[CptTrips]

I would first ask for representation from both sides to sit down somewhere and start talks

Perhaps you don't remember how Putin was begged not to roll tanks over the border for months. 

Perhaps you don't remember how a Regional Security Conference was offered to address their concerns and find some way from European states to feel secure without Russia feeling threatened.

However certain things like the disbandment of NATO are of course off the table.  But NATO is no threat to a Russia that stays within it's own borders.


Or perhaps you do remember and it's not convenient to mention?

[CptTrips]

So yes, you have a point with that but to what end beyond getting another thread locked?

Speaking the truth requires no further motivation.

He stated I wanted to send American troops to Ukraine and I have never made any such statement.

Do you like it when people lie about you?

[Lazerr]

If America was well off, mentally, and politically.  I'd be Pro help anyone that needs it.  We aren't.  The political scene here is a bunch of clowns throwing mud at eachother over money and control. We don't need another country to take us out, we can rip eachother here apart with agendas and fake news.

What's going to happen when China invades Taiwan?  $12.00 milk?

I think most of us here are at the agreement that this Ukrain shizshow is  due to territory and resources. It's too bad we can't offer Russian residents 100k a family to another country to just get out of there, and wipe that place off the map.

This idea these communists have with "hey, we kind of want that let's fight over it" is mind blowing to me.  I know assassination isn't legal, but none of the garbage these politicians do is anyways.  If we are so apt to lie about everything on a global cause,  why not do it for probably the best possible outcome of billions of people.

Find out where these communist nutjobs are at, at an inconvenient time, and smoke them.  (How exactly idk)  Next in charge pulls back Russia out of Ukraine,  or things start popping out of the water in that neck of the woods. 

It's really a sad situation.  But this seems like the kind of weed that needs to be taken at the root.

[Lazerr]

Let me add, if I Russian individual or family that doesn't really go along with what's going on over there, I'd be thinking about ways to get out.  I don't really know what their border security is like.  Maybe a nice 3 day hike through the woods.

[rabbidrabbit]

Speaking the truth requires no further motivation.

He stated I wanted to send American troops to Ukraine and I have never made any such statement.

Do you like it when people lie about you?

Of course not.  Like I said, you do have a point there and other places.  All I'm saying is thread after thread with good conversations get closed here for reason.  You guys could both do this on other forums like Ice Cream without the moderation outcome or stay within bounds here.  You are both electing to stay here and consistently operate outside of bounds.  Hopefully you see my point.

[CptTrips]

I know assassination isn't legal, but none of the garbage these politicians do is anyways.  If we are so apt to lie about everything on a global cause,  why not do it for probably the best possible outcome of billions of people.

It is better to make life unbearable for the Oligarchs and let one of them do it eventually.

Heck most Oligarchs would prefer to live in London and Paris anyway.  They will eventually tire of Putin interfering with their making of money with no apparent benefit.

If I could advise the Ukes I tell them to not attempt breakthrough. I'd tell them to hold the line and wait while Russia's economy crumbles.  Take no unnecessary risks but continually look for opportunities to use advanced weaponry to achieve outsized kill opportunities on the Russians.  Cut off their supplies and let them starve.  Cut off water to Crimea.  Blow the bridge some more.  More drone attacks on the Black Sea Fleet.  Bleed them, bleed them, bleed them.  And pin them while their economy crumbles.  Minimize your loses while looking for every chance to maximize theirs.  Keep assassinating their top commanders.

Like the Russians were bled to death in Afghanistan.  (But back then we had Reagan to stand up to them instead of the appeasers we have now who just want to give Putin anything so he doesn't get angry.)


But that is hard for them when friends and family are behind Russian lines getting raped and tortured and murdered and their children getting stolen and shipped off never to be seen again.  It's hard to be patient in those circumstances.

BTW, it worked once before.  We held off WWIII for 50 years while we ground them down until their political structure and economy collapsed from the strain.  It's a proven technique.

[Eagler]

Not sure where in this thread I crossed a line as it was not my intention

I was just hoping for the insight from those physically and emotionally closer to this mess thanks gas teddy, fd ski, rabbidrabbit

I know CptTrips thoughts, they haven't changed on this.. he enjoys the name calling..what can we do..

It is hard to discuss Ukraine in a vacuum as it is involving so many things these days

Here is hoping for the end of the killing sooner than later

Peace ✌️ out

Eagler