Arena idea FR & RR

[CptTrips]

Some tend to think every idea I have is based soley on drawing new players. Not so. I usually considered the draw as a byproduct.

From the OP. 

I thought this setup of Full Realism and Relaxed Realism was a good ladder to climb.
Basically this had to do with just AC settings, but in this case it would be arena/terrain settings.

Newer pilots flew RR until they built their skills to eventually step in FR and run with the big dogs. It was a goal. Training > RR > FR.

You will have no new players to enjoy a RR arena because of the items being discussed.

You are not in charge of conversations.

If you get your thread locked, that is your problem.  In either case, it doesn't prevent me from saying what I want to say.

I’m going to spend time on your yt page.

Classy as always, Anml.

[oboe]

I'm aware that we have veered from the original subject of Animal's post, and I apologize for that - I just wanted to post Hitech's statement of some years ago verbatim in response to Brooke's reference to it, to add actual numbers to the discussion.

I also want to say I appreciate Animal trying to come up with ideas that can be implemented without requiring coding changes or enhancements.  He's just trying to work with what we have.   I don't know if anyone but Hitech knows whether coding changes are even possible at this point.  Having worked in the past as a programmer myself, I shudder at the notion that one person, without so much as a test arena or group of testers, can handle all phases of design, development, testing, rollout to Production and the inevitable bug fixes and patches.   It is daunting to say the least. 

Having said that, I still believe there are few things that are beyond Hitech's capabilities as a developer.   

[CptTrips]

I'm aware that we have veered from the original subject of Animal's post, and I apologize for that - I just wanted to post Hitech's statement of some years ago verbatim in response to Brooke's reference to it, to add actual numbers to the discussion.

Just for completeness, here is the full original quote and the link to the original context:

Don't mean to jump on ya but on this rare occasion I want to point out how mistaken almost all people on this board are about the dynamics of AH.

In the last 100 days aprox 40,000 people have installed Aces High, 20,000 new people have created accounts and entered an arena. Of the people entering the arena 65% are gone and do never reenter by the 10 minute mark of being in the arena. 75% are gone after 30 Minutes.

So when some one makes a claim that changing to 3 hours will have a measurable impact on attracting new subscribers it makes me 

Don't begin to think I don't that I ignore the issues.
The release a few weeks ago was a huge change to how the mouse system works, in an attempt to improve the 75% leaving before 30 minutes of play.

So were the new training video systems. Also not only about 15% of people who try AH have Joy Sticks. Right now Aces Highs biggest issues is conversion rates of players trying the game to players subscribing. For some reason I am not setting the hook quickly enough that a player is having fun when first trying the game.

We used to run between a 10 to 12% conversion rate from entering an arena to subscriber. My goal currently is to substantially raise my current conversion rate which is around 1%. And I do not think the driving forces of that conversions are things like how long between country changes.

My next attempt is to try get free Match play populated. I am doing so by creating tournament structures. With prizes in the future.

HiTech

[oboe]

Thanks, CptTrips!   

Another frequent topic/complaint that get brought up in here as harming the game are map sizes; there is a group of people convinced that the current large maps are killing the game.  Making smaller maps could be done without coding changes - but I just don't think that is why 75% of the people who tried the game were gone in under 30 minutes. 

'course that quote is 6 years old; some things may have changed.

I would also add that one time, I tried a Xbox style game controller with AH, just for kicks.   AH assigned functions to it automatically, with reasonable button assignments.   I guess I'm too old a dog to learn new tricks so I couldn't get used to flying with it.  But I was impressed the AH was able to handle it, especially since Hitech said only 15% of the people trying AH have joystcks.  It might actually be better as a controller for GVs...



   

[CptTrips]

Another frequent topic/complaint that get brought up in here as harming the game are map sizes; there is a group of people convinced that the current large maps are killing the game.  Making smaller maps could be done without coding changes - but I just don't think that is why 75% of the people who tried the game were gone in under 30 minutes. 

Which is why I grouped things like pace\tempo that are effected by things like map size, at #4.  It more affects the retention of current subscribers than being the source of not converting new trial players.  They are not getting that far, which is the point in my response to Brookes.

I would also add that one time, I tried a Xbox style game controller with AH, just for kicks.   AH assigned functions to it automatically, with reasonable button assignments.   I guess I'm too old a dog to learn new tricks so I couldn't get used to flying with it.  But I was impressed the AH was able to handle it, especially since Hitech said only 15% of the people trying AH have joystcks.  It might actually be better as a controller for GVs...

Good point, I hadn't considered console controllers.  I suspect a large number of those are mouse players.  A lot of the casual players play WT with mouse. 

I had suggested in the past that the mouse controls be designed as closely as possible to how they work in WT as a shallower on-ramp and hopefully convince them to graduate to joystick and peddles. It's been years since I compared them, but my memory is it functioned quite differently than WT.

[Animl-AW]

Waiting 24 hrs to post on DCS, going to have great fun

[CptTrips]

Waiting 24 hrs to post on DCS, going to have great fun

You really should get back on your meds animl.

[Spikes]

Thanks, CptTrips!   

Another frequent topic/complaint that get brought up in here as harming the game are map sizes; there is a group of people convinced that the current large maps are killing the game.  Making smaller maps could be done without coding changes - but I just don't think that is why 75% of the people who tried the game were gone in under 30 minutes. 

'course that quote is 6 years old; some things may have changed.

I would also add that one time, I tried a Xbox style game controller with AH, just for kicks.   AH assigned functions to it automatically, with reasonable button assignments.   I guess I'm too old a dog to learn new tricks so I couldn't get used to flying with it.  But I was impressed the AH was able to handle it, especially since Hitech said only 15% of the people trying AH have joystcks.  It might actually be better as a controller for GVs...

When ArcheAge died I was in need of a new MMO to play, so I tried Black Desert. I got into it for about 15 mins, got through some tutorials, ran around a bit then logged off and haven't logged in since. Not that the game was bad, but having played a different game for so long I didn't feel like putting in the effort (at least right now) to re-learn a new MMO.

I feel that is similar to anyone coming from a different game, be it WW2OL, WT, IL2, DCS, etc. I own IL2 and a few DCS planes. I know the investment it's going to take for me to get proficient - just not something I'm willing to do right now. IMO AH is somewhere in between WT and IL2 when it comes to getting on your feet and getting somewhat proficient.

And I agree - I think a joystick is a requirement for these games, but it's understandable why not everyone has one. There used to be tons of low-cost options and now there just aren't. A console controller should be sufficient and likely leaps and bounds better than a mouse and keyboard, but still nothing compared to a stick (twisty or stick+pedals). I use the mouse/kb for GVs and gunning in bombers. Joystick for those is a total PITA.

[CptTrips]

IMO AH is somewhere in between WT and IL2 when it comes to getting on your feet and getting somewhat proficient.

I would agree with that statement.

When ArcheAge died I was in need of a new MMO to play, so I tried Black Desert. I got into it for about 15 mins, got through some tutorials, ran around a bit then logged off and haven't logged in since. Not that the game was bad, but having played a different game for so long I didn't feel like putting in the effort (at least right now) to re-learn a new MMO.

That is a fair point, but you still have to account for AH used to get 10-12% conversion rate to "around" 1% now, which might be rounded up from less than 1%.

That effect would have been in happening back in 2000 as much as 2023.  How was AH so successful 2000-2010?  Give that every customer is coming from somewhere. 

So why is AH not thriving now?  The key is to try and understand what has changed that there are no longer 600 players in the arena and no more Squeakers.

It can't be only because players refuse to learn a new game or else there wouldn't be so many former AH players in IL2 or DCS as they came long after AH.  How did they convince players to learn a whole new environment?  How did Enigma move from WWIIOL to IL2 to DCS?   Obviously there are plenty of players who will move or at least branch into other sims that they like the look of or meets their needs better.

So the important question is why isn't AH winning a share of those at least as well as it did in 2000?

[Spikes]

I would agree with that statement.

That is a fair point, but you still have to account for AH used to get 10-12% conversion rate to "around" 1% now, which might be rounded up from less than 1%.

That effect would have been in happening back in 2000 as much as 2023.  How was AH so successful 2000-2010?  Give that every customer is coming from somewhere. 

So why is AH not thriving now?  The key is to try and understand what has changed that there are no longer 600 players in the arena and no more Squeakers.

It can't be only because players refuse to learn a new game or else there wouldn't be so many former AH players in IL2 or DCS as they came long after AH.  How did they convince players to learn a whole new environment?  How did Enigma move from WWIIOL to IL2 to DCS?   Obviously there are plenty of players who will move or at least branch into other sims that they like the look of or meets their needs better.

So the important question is why isn't AH winning a share of those at least as well as it did in 2000?

Because none of those games existed in 2000.

[Animl-AW]

You have a new follower on DCS forums. I wouldn’t want to miss a thing. So excited.

Karma, is a very large pill to swallow

[CptTrips]

Because none of those games existed in 2000.

Sorry, I asked a lot of questions.  Let me narrow the scope.

If the problem is mainly do to a player not wanting to learn a new game even if it looks awesome, how did DCS convince so many former AH players to learn a whole new environment?  Or IL2?

Did they do so because they saw something they liked and decided it was worth the effort?

[CptTrips]

You have a new follower on DCS forums. I wouldn’t want to miss a thing. So excited.

Karma, is a very large pill to swallow

No one is listening to you any more, animl.

[Spikes]

Sorry, I asked a lot of questions.  Let me narrow the scope.

If the problem is mainly do to a player not wanting to learn a new game even if it looks awesome, how did DCS convince so many former AH players to learn a whole new environment?  Or IL2?

Did they do so because they saw something they liked and decided it was worth the effort?

I didn't say it was the main problem. I'm sure it's one of many factors. I just simply compared the dilemma to my experience from a different set of games in a different genre. And I don't know, you'd have to ask someone who plays DCS or IL2.

Can you answer something for me:
What is it about this forum that makes you want to stay? You don't play the game, you clearly don't like the game or the community surrounding the game. Whenever you post it's just about other competitors to AH and/or subtly bashing the game. So what is the endgame for spending all day on a forum for a game that you have zero interest participating in? Why not spend all of that time on a forum for a game in which you enjoy playing?

[Animl-AW]

Numbers? On steam charts, DCS dropped from a 2022 peak of 3,300 to 1,200 valley 2023, its still decending, currently at 2020 valley on the charts.

Seems reality has $truck quite a few.
Now makes sense frantically trying to pull AH players. From pot into frying pan. Barrowing from Peter to pay Paul.