Author Topic: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are  (Read 9754 times)

Offline CptTrips

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #90 on: December 07, 2023, 09:11:55 AM »
I'm not sayin it's Zaxxon but I guess I have to clarify every detail or somebody will end up offended. Seems to be the way of the world these days :)

Guess I wasn't clear, if you got the impression I was offended.  I was just adding in my $0.02.

I was just saying that while the DCS pony felt a bit more dynamic, I couldn't point to anything in AH FM that I would say felt wrong.  If fact I was struck by how similar they felt.  So if DCS is supposed to be the pinnacle of aerodynamic sophistication\fidelity, then, in that department at least, AH does pretty good in comparison.  And flight fidelity is what AH cares about more than system\engine details.

Some people have said, perhaps not you, that AH is less realistic because it doesn't have all the engine management.  That is not an invalid argument, but I think AH does a reasonable job.  The stuff it leaves out may not be that important for a game.  For DCS, if it is selling military simulators, then it is.  Every switch and procedure needs to be simulated so that it is a useful trainer for their military customers.  That is why they are so hyper on that stuff.  I used to think I'd hate that stuff, and in a MP environment I don't necessarily want to go through a long cold-start procedure, but offline I found I do like learning every single component of the Apache and including learning the whole startup procedure.

IL2 has AH beat on graphics.  DCS has IL2 beat.  AH has them both beat on the sandbox MP server design.  Rock, paper, scissors.

I worked a bout a year pretty intensively with the AH mission Editor and AI system.  I've spent the last year working pretty intensively with the DCS mission Editor.  I've played around a bit with the IL2 Mission Editor a while back.  To me, one of the core differences between them is you can see that originally DCS and IL2 were designed as single-player games with a constrained coop mission capability.  By that I mean they were meant to have a private server setup and some squaddies would log in and when everyone was ready you'd start a mission and it had a beginning, a middle, and a end.  AH was designed fundamentally as a monolithic MP server design with open ended sandbox gameplay and has a little bit of offline capability tacked on.  They approached the current situation from two different directions.  It shows down in their innards, in their underlying DNA.  It is difficult to do something single-player in AH  (no concept of a campaign for one thing) and it has proven an effort for DCS to move toward large scale sandbox MP, but they are moving in that direction.
   
Jason Williams stated in an interview that he knows from his data as the producer on the IL2 GB series that the vast majority of their customers were single-player.  That is what got them a huge player-base and generated the majority of their revenue.  That is why he is starting with SP, but knows that adding full sandbox MP is an eventual goal, so at least this time he is going to make sure that as they proceed they keep the MP design consideration front and center even as they design the initial SP so they don't end up with the limitations they had in IL2 that player-base has been trying to work around (DCS had same problem.  Players have been trying to work around the core limitation, but they do have a powerful scripting system to help).

I think they are all fine sims.  They each have advantages that the others don't (not that they can't).  However right now DCS has the momentum, hype, and mind-share, and revenue.  Money makes the world go around.  That gives them leverage to get things done and development is ongoing.  Feels like AH was back in the day.  IL2 and AH feels like things have stalled.  Enough revenue to keep their chin above water, but not enough to continue forward movement.

Combat Pilot is the dark horse worth keeping an eye on, but years and years and years away from being a serious player.

$0.02.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2023, 09:19:47 AM by CptTrips »
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Online Dadtallica

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #91 on: December 07, 2023, 09:12:56 AM »
Pretty sure everything but IL2 will look like serious dog crap and you'll wonder how you ever played them..

Eagler

Downloading Zaxxon, Tetris, Doom, IL-2 1946, SWOTL, IAF, EF2000, Gunship, and Falcon 3 as I type this...

I still play IL2-1946 but with the BAT mod. The stock game is a little weak but the mod makes it a completely new game by adding planes, robust campaigns and added effects. No more multiplayer but it’s great to play offline. I like it mostly because of all the pacific missions.

And yet I still pay my $15 a month for AH and probably play 2-3 hours a day.

BUT… I am thinking about Zaxxon now! :banana:
Back in 2022 after a loooooong break from 2010. Old name Ratpack, same for the BBS.

Squad I did the most tours with were the Excaliburs then The 172nd Rabid Dogs. Still trying to talk Illigaf, Coola, Oldman22, and Joecrow into coming back instead of being boring old farts!

Offline CptTrips

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #92 on: December 07, 2023, 09:16:29 AM »
Credit where credit is due; it's great restraint on his part. :old:

Or he was busy sending long strings of harassing sexual predator PMs to anyone on the forum that has disagreed with him, and didn't look up to see it.

 :rofl
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Offline Icer

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #93 on: December 07, 2023, 09:22:15 AM »
I still play IL2-1946 but with the BAT mod. The stock game is a little weak but the mod makes it a completely new game by adding planes, robust campaigns and added effects. No more multiplayer but it’s great to play offline. I like it mostly because of all the pacific missions.

And yet I still pay my $15 a month for AH and probably play 2-3 hours a day.

BUT… I am thinking about Zaxxon now! :banana:

I was joking (about all the downloads) of course, but I also have IL-2 1946 (I use the UltraPak 3.4 "Cassie" mod, it's smaller and less comprehensive). Main issue is the lack of 128DX availability so have to make a couple adjustments just for it. There IS a relatively active multiplayer group, take a look at the "SLS IL-2 Discord server - https://discord.gg/tyDer4jF . A Pearl Harbor event is this Saturday...
« Last Edit: December 07, 2023, 09:24:44 AM by Icer »
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Online Dadtallica

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #94 on: December 07, 2023, 09:30:50 AM »
I was joking (about all the downloads) of course, but I also have IL-2 1946 (I use the UltraPak 3.4 "Cassie" mod, it's smaller and less comprehensive). Main issue is the lack of 128DX availability so have to make a couple adjustments just for it. There IS a relatively active multiplayer group, take a look at the "SLS IL-2 Discord server - https://discord.gg/tyDer4jF . A Pearl Harbor event is this Saturday...

Hey good to know… I will stick with AH. Am I allowed to play AH if I play another online game? Rules seem unclear.
Back in 2022 after a loooooong break from 2010. Old name Ratpack, same for the BBS.

Squad I did the most tours with were the Excaliburs then The 172nd Rabid Dogs. Still trying to talk Illigaf, Coola, Oldman22, and Joecrow into coming back instead of being boring old farts!

Offline Icer

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #95 on: December 07, 2023, 09:34:14 AM »
Hey good to know… I will stick with AH. Am I allowed to play AH if I play another online game? Rules seem unclear.

Funny, I was wondering the opposite, will Dale accept my money if I own IL-2, DCS, and BMS Falcon and play all of those online also?
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Online Dadtallica

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #96 on: December 07, 2023, 09:39:58 AM »
Funny, I was wondering the opposite, will Dale accept my money if I own IL-2, DCS, and BMS Falcon and play all of those online also?

Wow you can pay for more than one? This is unheard of! Does everyone know about this? Maybe you’re a Rockefeller. This is all too much for me today.

Mind blown!
Back in 2022 after a loooooong break from 2010. Old name Ratpack, same for the BBS.

Squad I did the most tours with were the Excaliburs then The 172nd Rabid Dogs. Still trying to talk Illigaf, Coola, Oldman22, and Joecrow into coming back instead of being boring old farts!

Offline hazmatt

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #97 on: December 07, 2023, 11:20:40 AM »
Downloading Zaxxon, Tetris, Doom, IL-2 1946, SWOTL, IAF, EF2000, Gunship, and Falcon 3 as I type this...

SWOTL was my fave back in the day!

Offline hazmatt

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #98 on: December 07, 2023, 11:41:14 AM »
I'm trying to use the monitor to setup the missions and stuff and then switch to VR when I fly like I did in AH. However the way it's currently setup I have the exact same image on my monitor as my VR. It has two separate images for both eyes. I can get the monitor to work if I exit the game and uncheck VR at startup.

I actually logged in to an IL2 server yesterday and found the people there very friendly and helpful but couldn't help me solve my biggest problem. Maybe somebody here can?

I was lost the whole time and unable to find a fight. I ran out of gas the first time cause I only took 30% fuel but managed to dead stick it back to the base where I watched another 190 doing donuts. After a min it straightened up and roared across the grass very near me and took to the air. The pilot made some comment about his rudder pedals.

I like how different servers have different plane sets. I'm a dingdong tough. I bought the D9 separate to play on the late war severs and the hurri2, not thinking that it wasn't a late war plane. So now I can only fly the D9 in the LW servers.

Offline Icer

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #99 on: December 07, 2023, 11:52:01 AM »
I'm trying to use the monitor to setup the missions and stuff and then switch to VR when I fly like I did in AH. However the way it's currently setup I have the exact same image on my monitor as my VR. It has two separate images for both eyes. I can get the monitor to work if I exit the game and uncheck VR at startup.

I actually logged in to an IL2 server yesterday and found the people there very friendly and helpful but couldn't help me solve my biggest problem. Maybe somebody here can?

I was lost the whole time and unable to find a fight. I ran out of gas the first time cause I only took 30% fuel but managed to dead stick it back to the base where I watched another 190 doing donuts. After a min it straightened up and roared across the grass very near me and took to the air. The pilot made some comment about his rudder pedals.

I like how different servers have different plane sets. I'm a dingdong tough. I bought the D9 separate to play on the late war severs and the hurri2, not thinking that it wasn't a late war plane. So now I can only fly the D9 in the LW servers.

No idea how to solve your 2D -> VR issue, not sure it can be done that way. As for the maps, on full realism  it's not hard to get lost, you need to use landmarks like cities and rivers to navigate.

On the opposite front, I just DL'd AHII and installed it. First time I tried running it I get the AH splash screen for 2 seconds then CTD..  Posted on tech Support as a Google search didn't get me anywhere. Last AH update was in 2020?
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Offline edge12674

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #100 on: December 07, 2023, 01:38:18 PM »
CptTrips, good eval on AH vs. IL-2 vs. DCS.  I found the same thing on the flight modelling of the Pony.  Coming from AH, I was intimidated by the engine management aspect of DCS, but found it to be a minor issue and actually it increased my immersion. 

AcesHigh, as well as IL-2 to a degree, is focused on a pretty sterile combat environment with some clouds thrown in.  Aside from being a "cockpit sim" DCS added the realism of weather/crosswinds and ground/wake turbulence.  Wake turbulence when saddling up on a bogey is a real consideration and requires you to adjust your tactics. 

I never had to pay much attention to wind in AH and, as a real pilot, I always thought this broke the immersion.  With DCS, I find myself paying MUCH closer attention to the windsock.  Takeoff, landing, navigation, and ground attack are all affected by winds.  Keeping your fighter under control in a crosswind while taking off or landing is a very real part of aviation.  It is one of the aspects that separates a "sim" from a "game".

Most of us play to live out our fantasy of being a fighter pilot.  Dealing with mother nature in addition to the enemy is a big part of the fighter pilot world.  If AH starts getting updates again I would hope that would be one of the priorities.   

TShark
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #101 on: December 07, 2023, 02:14:06 PM »
That's interesting that you mentioned the windsock. I almost had a bad ending to one of my landings as I didn't realize there was a good crosswind until I was on final and almost over the threshold.

In my experience and granted I don't have much stick time in a real plane, the flight modeling of IL2 gives me more of the feeling of flying a real plane. The best example I can give is the spin modeling of AH vs the spin modeling of IL2. It just doesn't feel like a real plane to me in AH.

Offline Tumor

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #102 on: December 07, 2023, 09:10:07 PM »
For sure it's different. AH is more like playing an arcade game. Fast paced etc. Il2 is more like a flight sim, flight modeling collisions etc.

So for the online stuff for me has been boring but I'm still learning too. My first 2 sorties I flew around and found nothing to fight. First one I deadsticked back to base because of a light fuel load. 2nd one I managed to land but got kicked on the runway for "inactivity" and I'll let you know how the 3rd one goes :)

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Offline Tumor

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #103 on: December 07, 2023, 09:16:43 PM »
Guess I wasn't clear, if you got the impression I was offended.  I was just adding in my $0.02.

I was just saying that while the DCS pony felt a bit more dynamic, I couldn't point to anything in AH FM that I would say felt wrong.  If fact I was struck by how similar they felt.  So if

IMO the DCS Pony will fall off it's wings WAY before the AH one will.  The speeds/alt may correspond, but the feel of it is something else entirely.  Takeoff/landing... that too is crazy wierd (that said, I turn rudder assitance off in all cases)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2023, 09:21:30 PM by Tumor »
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Offline GasTeddy

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Re: IL2 sale any good? Dunno what the "normal" prices are
« Reply #104 on: December 08, 2023, 03:21:31 AM »

That's interesting that you mentioned the windsock. I almost had a bad ending to one of my landings as I didn't realize there was a good crosswind until I was on final and almost over the threshold.


Crosswind? What crosswind? I always land like this.