Author Topic: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable  (Read 31236 times)

Offline GasTeddy

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #285 on: February 02, 2024, 10:37:08 AM »

Any others on the horizon?


WW III perhaps..?
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Offline Bruv119

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #286 on: February 03, 2024, 01:41:16 AM »
CTrips...I hear you.

Regarding DCS...the Spit MK9 is the most difficult prop to learn. Master it and you will love it. In AcesHigh they say it is an easy noobee plane. Far from the truth in real life. As for the Mustang in DCS...actually easy. Beware the brakes in all tail draggers in DCS. I know for a fact that they are way too touchy in dcs.

And CTrips, get ready for the next celestial event in our life time. And don't forget about the awesome meteor shower in 2032.

I have to disagree with you on the spit bixby,  maybe the ground handling and landing is a challenge but get that assisted take off turned off and just use your feet.  The plane does have differential brakes so rudder is key.  In AH the spit follows the same principles as the other aircraft in as much as you can assign a left and right toe brake which is historically incorrect.  So don't throttle up too much when the hand brake is on otherwise your prop is chewing dirt.   My left foot just pumps the one brake assignment as you throttle up to taxi, once you are fast enough for rudder authority it's no brake at all.   If you ever watch them live you can hear them revving up and the rudder twitching doing exactly that which makes me go   :eek:  you can also amend the axis tune for brake input and scale it like you can in AH if you find them too sensitive.

Like in everything with practice you get awesome at it.  I also love the P51 for it's all round performance.  A good k4 pilot can give you trouble though so I have to adapt my tactics in those situations.  My spitfire owns them all though considering it is 1943 vs 45 aircraft models it just goes to show that Mr Mitchell was indeed a genius.   

The P47 for me is the only one that i've struggled with from a piloting perspective. Having a manual turbo lever as well as throttle and  rpm is one step to far for this spitdweeb.  I need to go away and chat with some P47 dedicated drivers and pick their brains on not killing the engine in a dive.   

The mossie is just spit engine x4 and they are linked so no trouble flying that.     
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Offline Bruv119

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #287 on: February 03, 2024, 01:56:18 AM »
So, as I take it the current state of simulated WWII aerial combat is:

AH has not been updated in about 10 years, shows no sign of updates to address player issues, MA numbers show minor fluctuations, and FSO numbers continue to decline.

IL-2 showing no further development in WWII till after a Korea era module coming out, roughly two to three years.

Combat Pilot is five years for single player and probably eight for multi-player.

DCS is working on WWII PTO with release in about a year.

Any others on the horizon?

I'd go along with that assessment.

Slight online problem with adding another theatre/map is that everyone goes oh look new shiny stufff  must have it, pay for it,  learn the cold start and want to use it in action.   The WW2 community then has to decide where to play on it.  Everyone disagrees where and who should be responsible for hosting it.   Do they put it in their rotation for one 6 hour mission then its not seen again for a week.   (favourite maps had that issue here also)  If they stick it on another server it then detracts from the existing normandy arena.   interest falls off and it doesn't get used.    I can see this already with the i16, la7 inbound, mossie and F4U+F6F.   When you opt for historical server you deny people using those modules.   

So it needs a burning skies type operator where everything goes WW2 dogfight server.   May make a comeback one day.   Furball arena  :banana:
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Online RichardDarkwood

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #288 on: February 03, 2024, 07:37:02 AM »
I  In AH the spit follows the same principles as the other aircraft in as much as you can assign a left and right toe brake which is historically incorrect.

it is a GAME so don't try to mix real life with a GAME.
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Online RichardDarkwood

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #289 on: February 03, 2024, 07:40:27 AM »

, 2)there is almost no fight in Pretty Planes.


I keep seeing this from you.


When are you gonna come find out?? There are a few servers in DCS that are populated with WW2 modules.


but nooooo. You need labels to identify, Auto take-off, bad flight modeling
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #290 on: February 03, 2024, 09:58:44 AM »
it is a GAME so don't try to mix real life with a GAME.

Well, I think I disagree with that depending on which product you are talking about and your meaning.

I think there is a Game-Simulation Spectrum.  It goes like:

(Pure Game)<--------WT------------------------------------AH---IL2-GB-------------------------------------DCS---------->(Pure Sim)

War Thunder falls at Game end.  DCS tries for the Sim end.  AH is pretty close to the middle,  IL2 pretty close to that, but a tad shifted more to Sim,  DCS swings for the Sim fences.

Those are for the most part design choices in my opinion.  A product stakes a point out on the continuum to try and attract a certain segment of the market.  I don't consider any of those choices wrong per se.

I judge a product by:

1.  How successfully it achieves it's desired level of fidelity or gaminess.
2.  How well that intended position on the spectrum matches my current desires as a consumer.

So how legitimate your above excuse is, depends on what product we are talking about.  If are talking about WT, then I'd probably agree on all manner of non-accurate representation.
If were are talking DCS, I don't think that excuse is always acceptable.  Stuff in between might be a coin flip. 

DCS is attempting to be the most accurate sim they can of the physical airplane.  They are essentially trying to create exact digital museum replica's. 

So I believe there is always going to be less "Game" in DCS and less "Sim" in WT, by design.  And all along the spectrum there is a curve of potential customers for products at that point on the spectrum.  The curve of potential customers probably peaks near WT and tapers off a long right-hand tail.  There are always going to be fewer potential players wanting the DCS level of fidelity than WT. 

But then the next question is how well a product captures the potential customers at their point in the spectrum. 

I think AH fails to capture all the potential customers at it's point in the spectrum.  Because IMHO, in order of importance, graphics, subscription model, lack of viable SP capability.

I don't fault AH for not being DCS because it didn't shoot for that part of the spectrum.  It may not line up with my personal taste of current selected point on the spectrum.  It may not fall in the part of the spectrum I personally am looking for at the moment.  But I think AH hits the level of fidelity it was trying for.  And I accept certain differences were commonized and simplified because those features didn't directly contribute to it's goals.

So if we are talking about not accurately representing the way differential braking worked in the Spit IX,

if we are talking about WT, I'd laugh and say your line,

if we are talking about AH I shrug and say that is not a deal breaker.  I think AH is more interested in the FM and systems that directly affected ACM in the air.  Anything that falls out of that can be compromised on.

If we are talking about DCS, I would fault them.  If they are creating museum grade, exact digital replica's of the actual historical aircraft those little things need to be represented.  That's what the $70 per plane is supposed to be buying you.

Just my opinion though.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2024, 10:14:08 AM by CptTrips »
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #291 on: February 03, 2024, 10:20:13 AM »
Don't forget the copious black smoke!

In the real world of Phantoms, before smokeless engines were introduced, we used the smoke and cinders as a defensive tool in attempt to blind anyone who got trapped at our six.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2024, 10:25:47 AM by Puma44 »



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Offline AKIron

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #292 on: February 03, 2024, 10:22:24 AM »
C and D models at Kadena when I was there in mid 70's. I think the C smoked more than the D but it's been a while.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #293 on: February 03, 2024, 10:31:15 AM »
In the real world of Phantoms, before smokeless engines were introduced, we used the smoke and cinders as a defensive tool in attempt to blind anyone who got trapped at our six.

LoL.  Like a squid's ink defense.

 :rofl

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Offline Eagler

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #294 on: February 03, 2024, 10:46:44 AM »
LoL.  Like a squid's ink defense.

 :rofl

I think that's why you are not immediately shot down when someone gets with 600 on your 6 when you have an oil hit in MA

I try to use it to my advantage when I'm in that spot

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Offline Puma44

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #295 on: February 03, 2024, 10:46:57 AM »
LoL.  Like a squid's ink defense.

 :rofl



Very much so.  A better, close in view.




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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #296 on: February 03, 2024, 11:20:48 AM »
I think that's why you are not immediately shot down when someone gets with 600 on your 6 when you have an oil hit in MA

I try to use it to my advantage when I'm in that spot


Works with contrails too.  If you have them.

I was in a Pony trying to defend some high alt B-17 from a squaddie attacking in a Dora.

I was doing ok for a while even though I haven't yet gotten perfectly used to TrackIR. 

But I lost him and I'm looking around frantically and the up he pops out of my contrail right on my 6.  Coming up underneath my contrail, I didn't see him until too late.

 :rofl

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Offline xanax

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #297 on: February 03, 2024, 07:42:34 PM »
Very much so.  A better, close in view.


Hah! Based on that pic, I could see myself losing the tail of a Phantom in a fight.....and a lung.

I grew up under the flight path of Phantoms of the Nevada Air Nation Guard in Reno. I spent a bunch of childhood listening to raised voices, almost to the point of yelling, as they flew over in pairs. As my dad used to yell: "sound of freedom, kid. Now go mow the front yard."
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Offline TryHard

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #298 on: February 03, 2024, 11:00:07 PM »
I keep seeing this from you.


When are you gonna come find out?? There are a few servers in DCS that are populated with WW2 modules.


but nooooo. You need labels to identify, Auto take-off, bad flight modeling

You're something else man :rofl

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Online RichardDarkwood

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #299 on: February 04, 2024, 06:32:50 AM »
You're something else man :rofl

DCS is gay

It is very happy indeed

Fighting cartoon aircraft without icons is difficult for some. You stick with easy mode
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