Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable

[Animl-AW]

This! Play and fly, tank and ack where you feel it suits you. "My mother beats your dad"-style jabbajabba starts really sound like in a kindergarten. Whadda fok it belongs to someone, if a person likes another sim or game? I go to AH and IL-2. They are different. Am I divided personality, perhaps scitso because of that? Please, go on, pour bucketfulls of loose crap on me as I like both! 

(Image removed from quote.)

1) its not as defensive as it is just stating simple basic facts of life. I question why its referred to as defensive, while the current is offensive.

2) No one looks down on their personal preferences. The point is, selling their stuff here while we can’t sell our stuff there. You should do what makes them happy, fly all 4. Just don’t come here peeing on our parade with passive aggressive sales, making ours look small for their own benefit.

Every game is missing something, people play all to have a more rounded world. Cool, awesome.

Trust me, or not, pretty planes is lacking if it wants to be compared to this style.

This is not rocket science. Its just elementary facts.

I don’t have anything against who started this thread, yet. But it can only have one direction. Down play AH and promote Pretty Planes. Very predictable. This is the only thing that can happen promoting other games on other games forums.everyone involved should know better,…IF they are honest brokers. 2 have proven to not be honest brokers when they consistently evade simple core points. Come-on, yall know better that this doesn’t help us at all. If course it doesn’t bother them, its not on their boards. As soon ss I returned the favor the very same kingpin of this reported me fir mentioning AH snd got me warned. His head exploded because I returned volley. So lets get off the innocent crap for the cpl doing it at every turn.

Fly 1 fly 12, I don’t care. You do you, I’ll do me. Just keep your dog in your own yard. Thats never asking too much. <shrug> ya gonna actually be mad at me for stating core facts? Ok.

[CptTrips]

Just a point of order.

I checked the forum posting rules.

I find no rule that states the name of another sim cannot be mentioned. 

I have never received a warning or penalty from a moderator for doing so. 

[CptTrips]

Graphics, scenery, etc are nice.  I'd prefer to have those things than not have them.

Each of our own personal preferences is one data point. 
Obviously you have a selection bias situation.

If you go to the World Soccer Cup and ask the fans, "Hey, you guys think Soccer or American Football is better?"  What answer do you think you are going to get?  Now go the the Super Bowl.  Same answers?

Another way to discuss it, is to put our individual preferences aside and look a the behavior of the over all market.  Instead of "Do you like soccer or football?"  the question becomes, "What percentage of American's primarily watch Soccer vs American Football?"

I understand graphics are not a deciding factor for you.

I can certainly see that players who have been playing a game for decades, would not be sensitive to the gap in graphics widening over time between their sim, and the graphics of the competition.  The boiling of the frog analogy might not be factually true, but it is "truthy".

However, I am convinced that graphics play a large role in attracting new players.  ESPECIALLY with a subscription model with no real FTP path.

Think of it like the Curb Appeal when selling a house.  The sale is half made\lost by the first impression pulling up.  Before the potential buyers even walk in. 
If it looks like it has been pimped out by Martha Stewart and the Bob Villa, they are almost like, "shut-up and take my money!"  If you pull up and it looks like a weedy Norman Bates house where the previous owner probably kept body parts in the garage, I'm not going to be receptive to the agent telling me about the new AC system recently installed and that overall, the house has really good "bones".  Yeah, probably buried out back.  Time is money, I might just say roll on to the next property, this dog ain't gonna hunt.

So imagine yourself as a brand new potential customer.  Never played AW, never played FA, never played WB, not a returning player.  Their first sim was IL2 BOS and now they are looking at other sims and came across AH screenshots and videos.  And see it is $15 every month.  No real FTP portion.

I think the graphics and the subscription are a One-Two punch. 

So I can see graphics not being enough to make a committed player leave, while still making attracting any new players (non-returning) really hard compared to the competition.

I'd be genuinely interested how many current players started out in IL2 BoX but decided to switch to AH and pay a subscription. Anyone know someone like that?  I'm sure there are a couple but...

So as far as growth, I think great graphics are vital.

[hazmatt]

I know quite a few people that fly multiple sims and I don't get why we can't just take the best from each one without the constant bickering. I'm on the IL2 forums as well and haven't seen the kind of stuff there that goes on here.

So, until there's something out there that has WWII scenarios that are better than AH scenarios, I wouldn't prefer it.

I know of no other game that can duplicate high alt bomber intercepts like AH3 can.

WWII online has much of the same stuff as AH3 like strategic bombing etc, however it has no 4 engine bombers and AH3 graphics are much better as I recall. (haven't played that one in a while either)

I think that in the tactical missions that IL2 rules.
Take for example when you're flying along a train track 100 ft above the ground looking for a moving train that you've been assigned to destroy or flying down a road looking for a convoy of trucks that is on the move. One that you know will have antiaircraft guns that will be have to be taken out first, while knowing the enemy may be expecting your attack and that there are other real players looking for you as well. Or when you see the flares fired from the tower or another player signalling that an enemy has been sighted. Added to this real rain clouds and fog adds to the immersion for me. Some of the AI stuff is pretty cool too. Seeing a line of of enemy tanks advancing to your tanks while both sides are firing is pretty cool too.

I've done very little DCS but I have taken the free planes for a spin and it seems like a decent sim, however I don't have enough experience to have an opinion on it.

[AKIron]

Of course icons/labels have long been "discussed" on many forums. Obviously they are not realistic. Certainly they make it easier to find and track your opponent. A few have made a compelling argument that what makes planes hard to detect and see is the expanded field of view almost everyone uses in all sims. A video analysis showed that using a FOV with the same parameters as real life greatly narrows your focus on a 2D screen and 3D VR to less effect. Planes are easier to see when you set your FOV to tunnel view as it would be in RL.

I can dig up a video on this if there are any doubting Thomases.

[AKIron]

Of course in 5th gen fighters labeled aircraft might be a real thing.

[Brooke]

However, I am convinced that graphics play a large role in attracting new players.

That could be.  I don't know one way or the other.  But I don't have any argument with that.

[Dadtallica]

That could be.  I don't know one way or the other.  But I don't have any argument with that.

I have had a lot of discussions on Reddit this past month and most of it of favorable to AH. Graphics and the subscription are the two biggest gripes.

I get the graphics knock but AH isn’t that awful. I chuckle at the sub model complaints. It’s how the world works now in almost every media consuming capacity. Apparently Big flight sim disagrees lol. I usually ask how many streaming services they have.

[Shuffler]

No one needs to be defensive. Play what you like, when you like. Be glad there's no dearth of sims and that they are becoming more and more realistic.

Evidently no one is playing IL2 or DCS as they are all over here on the AHIII boards. Go figure.

[CptTrips]

I have had a lot of discussions on Reddit this past month and most of it of favorable to AH. Graphics and the subscription are the two biggest gripes.

I get the graphics knock but AH isn’t that awful. I chuckle at the sub model complaints. It’s how the world works now in almost every media consuming capacity. Apparently Big flight sim disagrees lol. I usually ask how many streaming services they have.

Well look at it from an outsiders eyes, not someone already convinced of AH's worth.

They are seeing an older sim that hasn't been meaningfully updated in 5-6 and it's charging as much as their Netflix subscriptions that gets new shows and movies regularly. 

A for instance.  I'm working with a guy heavy into the IL2 1946 world.  They have their servers.   They have some Scenarios.  It's a 2008 game that has been patched and mod'ed like crazy.  I agreed to buy it and give it a brief review and he promised to at least try a two weak trial in Aces High.   They don't have as big an online community (I think Enigma did a Scenario recently with 80 players) but some of their mod packs expand out to boatloads of new planes maps and campaigns.  Fully mod'ed it looks very close to AH.  Maybe slightly better.  I see a ton of potential for mutually beneficial cross-pollination between the 1946 and AH communities.  I told him they are not twins, but probably kissing-cousins.  I think all those 1946 guys should at least do the two-week trial.  That is what I'm going to recommend.

But their sim cost them $5-10.  Everything else was free.  That is what you are competing against with a sim with similar graphics.  (AH FM, server tech better.)
I bought my copy on sale for $4.99. 

That is IL2 1946.  AH does not compete with IL2 GB graphically, IMHO.

[Dadtallica]

I play 1946 single player with the BAT mod. It’s fun. No I do not want to play it online.

[GasTeddy]

1) its not as defensive as it is just stating simple basic facts of life. I question why its referred to as defensive, while the current is offensive.

2) No one looks down on their personal preferences. The point is, selling their stuff here while we can’t sell our stuff there. You should do what makes them happy, fly all 4. Just don’t come here peeing on our parade with passive aggressive sales, making ours look small for their own benefit.

Every game is missing something, people play all to have a more rounded world. Cool, awesome.

Trust me, or not, pretty planes is lacking if it wants to be compared to this style.

This is not rocket science. Its just elementary facts.

I don’t have anything against who started this thread, yet. But it can only have one direction. Down play AH and promote Pretty Planes. Very predictable. This is the only thing that can happen promoting other games on other games forums.everyone involved should know better,…IF they are honest brokers. 2 have proven to not be honest brokers when they consistently evade simple core points. Come-on, yall know better that this doesn’t help us at all. If course it doesn’t bother them, its not on their boards. As soon ss I returned the favor the very same kingpin of this reported me fir mentioning AH snd got me warned. His head exploded because I returned volley. So lets get off the innocent crap for the cpl doing it at every turn.

Fly 1 fly 12, I don’t care. You do you, I’ll do me. Just keep your dog in your own yard. Thats never asking too much. <shrug> ya gonna actually be mad at me for stating core facts? Ok.

You totally missed the fact my message wasn't targeted directly to you, but you anyway had to catch the ball.  One man's facts are not facts for someone else.

Anyway, my dog stays on its yard and it is not even barking as it is ok with its conditions. Some dogs just bark so hard the whole forum shakes from echoes.

I know quite a few people that fly multiple sims and I don't get why we can't just take the best from each one without the constant bickering. I'm on the IL2 forums as well and haven't seen the kind of stuff there that goes on here.

Exactly. But there are always those, who know better. In every subject.

[AKIron]

Evidently no one is playing IL2 or DCS as they are all over here on the AHIII boards. Go figure.

Yeah, no. Thousands post about DCS on the DCS boards and reddit every day. You have a handful of us old time AH players posting here.

[AKIron]

There are several Reddit DCS focused forums. Complaints abound on all of them along with requests for help, suggestions, admiration, etc.... Folks are getting anxious for the F-4E.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DCSExposed/comments/1ai7i3n/eagle_dynamics_hasnt_seen_the_f4e_yet_context_in/

[AKIron]

I know I'm ready.