Author Topic: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable  (Read 31325 times)

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #555 on: February 15, 2024, 07:07:14 PM »
Sorry, can't help you with that. Always played Il-2 and DCS in single player only, I have no idea about their MP numbers.

Cool. 

What DCS modules do you have?

If that's intrusive, then ignore the question.  I was just curious.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2024, 07:52:04 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #556 on: February 15, 2024, 08:16:23 PM »
Cool. 

What DCS modules do you have?


Flaming Cliffs 3
Black Shark 2
UH-1H
F-5E
Mi-8


Persian Gulf Map

Everything bought during sales, of course  :old:
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #557 on: February 15, 2024, 08:51:37 PM »

Flaming Cliffs 3
Black Shark 2
UH-1H
F-5E
Mi-8


Persian Gulf Map

Everything bought during sales, of course  :old:

Yeah.  That is a good way of doing it.  I bought too many of my modules full price because:

1.  I didn't realize how often they had big sales.
2.  I want immediate gratification. ;)  I'm trying to break that expensive habit. ;)

Do you like the helicopters?  I love the huey.  I really like the Mi-8 too but haven't flown it as much yet.  I just wish I knew what that Russian chick was screaming at me all the time.  For me, helicopters were like learning to fly all over again, but strangely, I think they somehow improved my fixed wing flying.  I never thought just picking up and hauling sling loads would be fun. 

Just completing a flight without VRS felt like I had just landed 5 kills. ;)



« Last Edit: February 15, 2024, 08:54:18 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #558 on: February 15, 2024, 09:06:20 PM »
I remember watching helo pilots during unrep in heavy seas where they had to time grabbing the hook to the movement of the ship as the deck went up and down in the swells and admiring their skills. If they got too low when the ship was in a trough the deck would reach up and smash the helo. I do remember that once they got the hook they would lift at full tilt!

Also another note that may or not be of interest to helo pilots. When they were doing a SAR and picking somebody up from the water. The guy in the door that wasn't on the sling was actually flying the chopper with a stick located by the door. This is because the pilot had no viability on the guy in the water and could not react in a timely manner over ICS.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #559 on: February 15, 2024, 09:39:29 PM »
Also another note that may or not be of interest to helo pilots. When they were doing a SAR and picking somebody up from the water. The guy in the door that wasn't on the sling was actually flying the chopper with a stick located by the door. This is because the pilot had no viability on the guy in the water and could not react in a timely manner over ICS.

That would be a cool mod\feature.  In DCS you can do a hover SAR pickup but it is tricky because it is hard to see underneath you clearly.  In some places you have no choice because nowhere good to land close by.

What airframe was that?
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #560 on: February 15, 2024, 10:00:28 PM »
While Drano made valid points, there are a LOT more people opposing this thread of a handful of people. You made your choice and excuses while bashing AH and insulting people still putting a lot of work on it by its existence. Several who go back to the beginning of AW. We’re all starting to get pissed that this is allowed to counter our work. You gave up, cool your choice. No one else who made that same choice is being so rude to do this. Its 3-4 people vs 100s. This thread is pure disrespectful. This is low class. I would move to Pretty Mankins just because of it.

RichardWoodDweeb made a stupid remark about how player play here and hide and don’t in Pretty Manilins, well thats because there are only two playing Pretty Manakins. If you have to search so hard for s fight, yep it will be different.  Its BORING.if that POS had any fun at all  they wouldn’t have time to be here. They are more desperate than us who are preserving AH. Most boring videos I’ve ever watched.

This us a desperate act to preserve their investment at our expense. Drano’s point are separate from the fact this thread is stupid.

They are here because they are losing numbers, no fights to be had while our numbers started rising in summer.

And because this is disrespectful of the people pouring there heart into AH, I will continue to pummel this thread. This is our choice, not yours, move on to your choice. More don’t want this hete than the former players who do. Trips has zero class, which is why he’ brought others in here because most have him on ignore and not hearing his low life bs. That said, people who tweak settings provided to them is NOT. A coder, it was mocking HT with nonsense.

If there was a vote on this thread it would be hone in minutes. Its time for HT to step up and help us help him and his income. We’re getting really irritated this is allowed, when politics isn’t. Same excuse to block politics is the same reason thus should be shut down. Resoect the people helping over these very few ripping us down.

Whats more important? People preserving his game and income, or former players tearing it down? Are people preserving the game least important?
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #561 on: February 15, 2024, 10:07:48 PM »
What airframe was that?
From what I understand it was standard on the SH60. Dunno about the other birds.

Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #562 on: February 15, 2024, 10:09:25 PM »
Consider how you guys feel about multiplayer online play vs. single player offline play.

If folks were debating some wrinkle of offline single-player play, you would wonder why they care at all and aren't playing multiplayer.  Because multiplayer is a whole higher realm of play and enjoyment compared to offline single player.

That's the same distance I feel between scenarios and regular multiplayer.

But when I talk to people who have never tried scenarios, it often feels like this.  "Hey, how about for dinner an aged prime ribeye steak, grilled asparagus, baked potato smothered in butter, Caesar salad, a glass of wine, Gulf shrimp cocktail, and for desert fresh-baked apple pie and homemade ice cream?"  And the reply is, "Nah.  I like my McDonald's cheeseburger."  Me:  "OK, but how about just trying it?"  Reply:  "Nah.  I'm good."

It mystifies me because, to me, scenarios are the greatest, and no other type of game play comes even remotely close.

Single player is w white glove sim. They will never have scenarios like you guys do. They will never have scenarios period, because they really don't have multiplayer,.. what is the most they can get n a server 30-50? which is WAY beyond comical when they try to con us into Pretty Manikins with our lower numbers. Lower numbers?  One our worst day we stomp them with multiplayer numbers. Its a white glove sim,.. ya never get your hands dirty playing with cockpit button... most of which you don't even need or use ina  fight,.. of course, they don't have many fights,.. they have to look very hard to find one.
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #563 on: February 15, 2024, 10:11:30 PM »
LOL!! who really cares about engine management? Do you play a fighter game, or an engine management game?

I have always played AW, and Warbirds, and AH to FIGHT other players in the air. The war aspect is an added plus, but for all the time Ive played it was to pit my puny skills against other players.

If you want to flip switches, monitor gauges, temps, pressures INSTEAD of flying against live opponents..... well get yourself a box game and play with yourself.

At least here we still have players to fight.

They seem to think we are impressed with pretty bordom
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #564 on: February 15, 2024, 10:23:32 PM »
My feeling, having flown air combats in SIAI-Marchetti SF.260's at Air Combat USA, is that it was highly similar to dogfights in AH.

When I flew my combats there, I did the full range of things we do in Aces High:  loops, split s'es, Immelmanns, vertical persuits, high and low yo yo's, scissors, rolling scissors, lag persuit, lead moves, energy moves, angles moves, with up to 6 g's.  There were some fights that ended just like in AH, where we fought to a stalemate-ish stallfight, chugging around on the hard deck with flaps out, seeing who could squeeze the last drop of turn performance out.

In terms of feel, it felt very much like P-51's in the dueling arena.  Similar handling feel (in terms of roll response, pitch response, etc.).  Similar way the fights went.

I didn't have to put much attention on engine control (other than pulling back some on throttle in prolonged vertical dives).  Wake turbulence was not a meaningful factor in any fights.

There was one aspect of aerodynamics that did matter in these Air Combat fights that might not in AH:  flow separation as you approach stall.  In real life, as you pull enough g's to get near stall, you start to get flow separation off the tops of the wings.  In AH, you do see this from the screen shake and buffeting noise.  In the Marchettis, you got that buffeting.  But in real life, drag goes up more during buffet than outside of buffet.  So in the fights, it was important to pull g's only up to but not into buffet (unless you want big drag, for causing an overshoot, or something like that).  In AH, we often pull right into that buffet closer to the edge of the stall.  I haven't noticed higher drag in buffet than out of buffet.  That doesn't mean it isn't in AH -- it would not be hugely noticeable.  But if there was a difference between Air Combat and AH, I would say it is where you choose to ride the edge of g's: at edge of buffet or at edge of stall.  It wouldn't change the characteristics of the fight either way.  Riding the edge of buffeting is exactly the same as riding the edge of stall -- you are just picking one or the other to ride the edge of.  So this one is just a very fine, picky detail.

I've read a huge number of first-person accounts of WWII air combat.  Sometimes, a pilot does tell you that things done with prop pitch, mixture, throttle setting, etc.  But often, those were things that a pilot did when first entering combat from a cruising configuration.  Then, once in fighting configuration, they aren't doing much other than manipulating throttle as desired for combat, usually keeping it on full, less commonly chopping it to slow down.  Cowl flaps were usually staying closed.  Oil-cooler flaps are usually on auto or in some state that don't require manipulation during a fight.  Mixture in auto rich.  Prop in max rpm.   Mixture and prop are fiddled with in cruise.  The other various flaps are usually fiddled with in landing and takeoff.

As a result, I'm suspecting that fiddling with engine knobs isn't adding accuracy of the air-combat portion of flight.

These guys are impressed with bells and whistles and sitting on a tarmac,... waiting, and waiting,..... to not find a fight.

Reminds me of glass globes filled with water and cute colored metal flakes. YA turn it upside down and watch the pretty colors slowly drift to the bottom.... at first it's cute,... then you do it again,.. not so much,.. then again and it strikes you,.. there's simply nothing else I can do with it. Ya set it down, walk away,.. it gathers dust and you remember it,.. turn it up side down again,... and set it down and walk away, usually to never be touched again, except dusting.

They WAY over sell this game,.. and the people expecting to find beautiful fights there, and are going be twice as upset after investment. They actually do more harm to the game, because it forces us to put it's faults on full display. But, stupid people do stupid things,.... it makes them feel intelligent.

It's eye candy,.. nothing more, nothing less. Same as Penthouse, stunning things you'll never touch.
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #565 on: February 15, 2024, 10:31:43 PM »
Again, that is just eye candy. I would much rather fly AH because in the 10+ minutes of the video ( he made a number of time jumps for the video) I could have been shot down by any number of guys. The explosions looked great but you needed to use "other views" to see them. From the angles he used it looked like he was going to catch damage from the explosions as he was way too close. Poor damage model. He didnt want to go back for guns, yet I never heard him getting hit on the two passes he did. That doesnt happen very often in AH.

And on top of it all, all he had to worry about was ack and his own poor flying (would have loved to see the guys by the jeep run like hell when he went by off the runway), no action.

People talk about the number slowly dropping in AH. I'll try DCS again once their numbers get to 100 on a server.

This still makes me laugh.
They shame us for low numbers when they can't come close to ours in one arena....

Somehow they think 30-50 is a much higher numbers than 120-168.
I've seen fungus spewing gas bubbles from the bottom of a sewage ditch that had more intelligence. Astounding

Which makes us point this fact out when they are trying to use it as some vast leverage point. Lets think about that.
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Offline AKIron

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #566 on: February 15, 2024, 10:35:43 PM »
Space Wars was the first video game I played. In the 1970's. It was mind blowing. Games got better and better over the decades becoming less like games and more like simulations of real like. I'll take real life over a simulation but the real WWII is long over and I'm too old to fly jets for the USAF now. Simulations are still entertaining. I also like Texas Hold 'Em and craps at the Casino. Those are games.
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #567 on: February 15, 2024, 10:50:30 PM »
A MUST WATCH

DCS: A Beautiful Mess. Its History, the good, the bad, and the ugly.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2024, 10:58:51 PM by Animl-AW »
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #568 on: February 15, 2024, 11:12:23 PM »
DCS certainly has it's problems like any complex sim.

Just as I always suggest anyone I talk to about AH to download the free client and do some practice and at least take advantage of the two week trial,
I would also suggest people download the free DCS World client and play around with the two free planes (P-51 trainer and SU-25) and go ahead and download some of the nicer free mod airframes like VSN's F4 and A4, and the excellent free blackhawk mod to get a taste of the helo.  There is also a little bird free mod aircraft that I've been meaning to try. 

In both cases, there is a bunch you can play with before deciding if there is anything you want to pay for.  I don't see how anyone can have a problem with trying out some free stuff if you are into simming.

Unless you are in a cult.

DCS World client is free.

VSN F4 is free:


VSN A4 free:


Blackhawk free:


Little Bird AH-6J free:


Free OV-10 mod:




Free A-29 mod:



Free C-130 mod:




*The only ones I have personally tried is the F4 and blackhawk.  I was impressed with both.

You can certainly spend a lot of money in DCS, but you can also get  quite a lot free.  Go make your own evaluation.



« Last Edit: February 15, 2024, 11:46:22 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #569 on: February 16, 2024, 12:20:18 AM »
If you're talking about a cult, I've noticed that since I've stopped reading any posts from Animl-AW that I haven't felt the cult thing so much. It's almost like there's a logical conversation going on.