Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable

[Dadtallica]

Good stuff Drano… too bad it won’t matter.

I too am baffled by the popularity commercial/freight pilot sim world. People actually fly thr routes in real time. Thats a special flight simmer. Also the MSFS community has some of the most amazing home sim pits I have ever seen. For a passenger plane!

[Drano]

Good stuff Drano… too bad it won’t matter.

I too am baffled by the popularity commercial/freight pilot sim world. People actually fly thr routes in real time. Thats a special flight simmer. Also the MSFS community has some of the most amazing home sim pits I have ever seen. For a passenger plane!

And the gear for that is absolutely nuts! If you're flying in 2D and want to build a simpit with "real" instruments---somebody has probably made one! I saw a Garmin 530 that acts just like the real one. Real screen, funtional knobs and buttons that plugs in a USB to the sim--$1k! And those "special" guys are lining up for it! Been with my wife for 40 years. That would certainly be the end of me! hehe

[AKIron]

VR is great but after owning two headsets I decided I just like TrackIR better. Not because it looks better but because it's less hassle. I bought the Oculus when the consumer version was first released. Was flying X-Plane now and then back then, don't remember the version. I had bought the Piper Tomahawk for X-Plane because that is what I first learned to fly in. I took it up in the Oculus and was amazed. I got distracted for a bit and suddenly I was rushing straight down to the ground. I had to close my eyes just before I hit. 

[AKIron]

That wasn't the first time I'd seen 3D on the PC though. Had a friend who had an Amiga 1000 back in the mid 80's. He had the LCD glasses that switched rapidly in sync with 3D images on the monitor for an amazing 3D experience. I thought that would catch on. It didn't. VR is here to stay now though.

[Eagler]

When vr is added to the mix ah takes the advantage as you can truly enjoy VR in AH with just a 1070 vCard

Same can't be said for the other two

Eagler

[CptTrips]

It is! But I still have to stick with my X-52pro throttle. The Gladiator was already stretching the budget 

But that is at least a rotational throttle like the logitech quad so it probably has some of the same advantages. 

The slider throttle sucked.

[edge12674]

I would also suggest people download the free DCS World client and play around with the two free planes (P-51 trainer and SU-25) and go ahead and download some of the nicer free mod airframes like VSN's F4 and A4, and the excellent free blackhawk mod to get a taste of the helo.  There is also a little bird free mod aircraft that I've been meaning to try. 

In both cases, there is a bunch you can play with before deciding if there is anything you want to pay for.  I don't see how anyone can have a problem with trying out some free stuff if you are into simming.


You can certainly spend a lot of money in DCS, but you can also get  quite a lot free.  Go make your own evaluation.

This DCS reluctance is one thing that baffles me.  Whether you prefer WarThunder, IL-2, MSFS2020, or AcesHigh, you have available to you (via DCS) a P-51 Mustang that is as accurate as a civilian can get.  It comes with full documentation, training tutorials, and is FOREVER FREE.  It will teach you everything about a P-51 EXCEPT ordinance delivery.  It is supported and updated by the developer and is "state of the art" in flight simming.  The ONLY thing it costs you is some hard drive space and the time you wish to take playing with it. 

The only better deal would be if someone GAVE you a REAL P-51 and committed to paying for all your training and maintenance costs. 

Just like watching a documentary or reading a book, learning to operate a prop driven tail dragger with a hyper accurate flight model can only enhance your playing experience in other sims/games.

Then add in a FREE A-4 Skyhawk and you have a early jet with ordinance delivery, air to air refueling, carrier operations, and multi-player available to you.  Again, all this only costs you hard drive space and as much time as you are willing to spend.

All this is not in lieu of your favorite game/sim.  It is a FREE GIFT with no time limit.

To me it is hard to believe people in this hobby would refuse a free, supported, state of the art flight sim IN ADDITION to their sim/game of choice.

[Spikes]

This DCS reluctance is one thing that baffles me.  Whether you prefer WarThunder, IL-2, MSFS2020, or AcesHigh, you have available to you (via DCS) a P-51 Mustang that is as accurate as a civilian can get.  It comes with full documentation, training tutorials, and is FOREVER FREE.  It will teach you everything about a P-51 EXCEPT ordinance delivery.  It is supported and updated by the developer and is "state of the art" in flight simming.  The ONLY thing it costs you is some hard drive space and the time you wish to take playing with it. 

The only better deal would be if someone GAVE you a REAL P-51 and committed to paying for all your training and maintenance costs. 

Just like watching a documentary or reading a book, learning to operate a prop driven tail dragger with a hyper accurate flight model can only enhance your playing experience in other sims/games.

Then add in a FREE A-4 Skyhawk and you have a early jet with ordinance delivery, air to air refueling, carrier operations, and multi-player available to you.  Again, all this only costs you hard drive space and as much time as you are willing to spend.

All this is not in lieu of your favorite game/sim.  It is a FREE GIFT with no time limit.

To me it is hard to believe people in this hobby would refuse a free, supported, state of the art flight sim IN ADDITION to their sim/game of choice.

Because some people don't want that out of a game. I enjoy the simplicity of AH. I can log in and go find a fight within 5 minutes of rolling. It is designed with this in mind. All of the games you mention are vastly different with different target markets and really cannot be compared side by side. I also like the events (I barely even fly in the MA). We can throw a dart at an air battle in WWII and come up with a pretty damn accurate event, though it might take a couple plane type/model substitutes. There isn't another game that can do events like we do in their current state. Maybe some day.

I think it's a very tough sell to come to a WWII combat flight sim forum and want people to play DCS, which is primarily a combat jet sim game with what...5 or 6 WWII planes?

PS. This is coming from someone who has DCS installed and bought the F-14. I just haven't had the time or desire to sit down and spend hundreds of hours learning a new game and having to read manuals to fly each new type I want to fly. I also have War Thunder, IL-2, and MSFS2020. I'm not a hater.

[The Fugitive]

This DCS reluctance is one thing that baffles me.  Whether you prefer WarThunder, IL-2, MSFS2020, or AcesHigh, you have available to you (via DCS) a P-51 Mustang that is as accurate as a civilian can get.  It comes with full documentation, training tutorials, and is FOREVER FREE.  It will teach you everything about a P-51 EXCEPT ordinance delivery.  It is supported and updated by the developer and is "state of the art" in flight simming.  The ONLY thing it costs you is some hard drive space and the time you wish to take playing with it. 

The only better deal would be if someone GAVE you a REAL P-51 and committed to paying for all your training and maintenance costs. 

Just like watching a documentary or reading a book, learning to operate a prop driven tail dragger with a hyper accurate flight model can only enhance your playing experience in other sims/games.

Then add in a FREE A-4 Skyhawk and you have a early jet with ordinance delivery, air to air refueling, carrier operations, and multi-player available to you.  Again, all this only costs you hard drive space and as much time as you are willing to spend.

All this is not in lieu of your favorite game/sim.  It is a FREE GIFT with no time limit.

To me it is hard to believe people in this hobby would refuse a free, supported, state of the art flight sim IN ADDITION to their sim/game of choice.

The reluctance for me is due to what you get for FREE.

Im retired so time isnt too much of an issue, so I can put time in to learn a new game ( have taxied, taken off a bunch of times and have flown around a lot with the P51.....landing,,,,not so much yet  ) Even being free, the hours spent I feel are wasted. Just in the lack of combat. I dont want to fly around, I want to fight other players. Im happy to pay my $15 a month to do that pretty much any time I want to.

[edge12674]

All of the games you mention are vastly different with different target markets and really cannot be compared side by side.

I think it's a very tough sell to come to a WWII combat flight sim forum and want people to play DCS, which is primarily a combat jet sim game with what...5 or 6 WWII planes?

Exactly, they are different and I am not suggesting DCS instead of any other, but rather in addition to.  With regards to a multi-player WWII combat game you are correct.  I am only mentioning DCS as it is unique in its free offerings.  If it was a financial hit I see your point. 

I too enjoyed AH's simplicity, but it did not stop me from reading books or watching documentaries on WWII aircraft.  If someone wanted to give you a free book or DVD on the P-51 would you turn it down?  I am sure there are those that don't want to complicate their lives with learning anything outside of the game.  I think by and large those people are not the ones spending money on HOTAS, VR and the like.   

[AKIron]

I think most want a simplified war environment. Millions love running around shooting people in FPS games but don't want the actual training and discipline required of the real life military. Same goes for flight sims. For me, learning and experiencing a sim as close to real life is more satisfying, and therefore less time wasted, than skipping the hard part. But I repeat myself.

[edge12674]

The reluctance for me is due to what you get for FREE.

Im retired so time isnt too much of an issue, so I can put time in to learn a new game ( have taxied, taken off a bunch of times and have flown around a lot with the P51.....landing,,,,not so much yet  ) Even being free, the hours spent I feel are wasted. Just in the lack of combat. I dont want to fly around, I want to fight other players. Im happy to pay my $15 a month to do that pretty much any time I want to.

See, I find that interesting.  When I was playing around with the DCS TF-51 and still flying AH, I found it enhanced my flying skills and appreciation in AH.

[edge12674]

I think most want a simplified war environment. Millions love running around shooting people in FPS games but don't want the actual training and discipline required of the real life military. Same goes for flight sims. For me, learning and experiencing a sim as close to real life is more satisfying, and therefore less time wasted, than skipping the hard part. But I repeat myself.

I think I am the same way.  Funny that MSFS over the years never really hooked me, but give me that same level of fidelity with the simulated ability to "kill people and break their things" and suddenly I am having more fun than I have had for years in this hobby.

Interesting all of our different takes on this hobby.

[AKIron]

It's long been a practice in video games to create a mini game within a game to simulate an aspect of the part not really modeled. Those I have never enjoyed much.

[AKIron]

I doubt there is any sim developer anywhere more dedicated to detail and realism than Heatblur. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nHCKO9Hb-M