Author Topic: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya  (Read 1026 times)

Offline AKIron

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2024, 08:18:43 AM »
There is a free flyable F-4 by VSN but the other is AI only. Until today. The F-14 does have auto throttle.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2024, 08:23:15 AM »

...

Heh.  I'll believe it when I spawn in it. ;)

Trailer was a little flat.  They could learn a thing or two from whoever makes Heatblur's videos.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2024, 08:34:41 AM by CptTrips »
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2024, 08:49:49 AM »
Eagle Dynamics has delayed the Phantom another day, ON the day of release.

Usual poor performance BS from them (I don't know if it's ED or Heatblur who really did it).

I don't pull any punches for their ineptitude regarding management of releases (or discounted early access pre-purchase con)... have at it! :airplane:

Best I can say is “I told ya so”. Their model and numbers don’t work. The more delay on AC coming out, the worse it will get. Every situation will cause player confidence to drop. They aren’t dead, but future indicators and tells are emerging. Dedicated players will be the last to know. It’s becoming a bad investment. If they don’t pick up production and new planes real quick they will enter a spiral that will be hard to recover because of their payment model.

This is not new to me. Before returning to AH, 2020, I DLed DCS to find something new. As soon as I discovered their payment model I chose not to invest. I saw this coming way back then. These kind of numbers are easily imploded as soon as AC stop coming out. No new AC, no revenue, dev becomes unaffordable. The fact they sought investors is a major tell.

Obviously, Trips has pre-pay caution for a reason.

Just because past pre-pays went through that doesn’t mean future pre-pays will. Just the fact they are asking for pre-pay system is a tell they can’t afford dev. Now if all the buyers have pre-paid profit is already swallowed. The pit gets deeper.

People with vast investments will be the last to admit there are problems. Denial takes over.

This new model will prolly come out, it was in production before major problems hit. Future models is your true concern.

This payment model is easier to implode than a sub model.

Obviously, player confidence is dropping, even if its not global. That’s not where they want to be. It will make a spiral spin faster.

Its a beautiful game, but I think these cockpits swallow dev time to get AC out. Its very time consuming - expensive. I think they set their sights too high to be affordable dev., only to be smashed by a problematic payment model. They can’t afford their demands on dev. subcontractors.

If they don’t turn out 2-3 AC real quick…you can guess where this will go.

I hated watching people invest in a bad system. At some point investors are going to want a return.

I’m not in their books, its all instinct, but tells are emerging, and those are only those you know about. They are in damage control panic. They will tell you what they think you want to hear to keep you interested, then have the backlash as failing to deliver. Had Razbam not gone public, you may not see it coming. Evidently, to me, that issue has not been resolved. Some devs walked away from razbam due to not being paid because razbam was not paid. They may not be able to resolve that issue. Damage is done.

Beautiful game, horrible biz model. A shame.

When I can accurately predict something I don’t have all the facts on, good chance instincts have it nailed. I predicted this 4 yrs ago. <shrug>.

If it takes s team 6 mos to a year to turn out an AC, I’d hate to see that invoice.

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Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2024, 09:04:49 AM »

horrible biz model.


Of all the crazy, deranged out of left field crap you spew at people on here


This is the only thing I agree with.

I have only been playing DCS since 2020 and the one constant thing about that game


is the company's horrible business practices.
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2024, 09:14:18 AM »
Of all the crazy, deranged out of left field crap you spew at people on here


This is the only thing I agree with.

I have only been playing DCS since 2020 and the one constant thing about that game


is the company's horrible business practices.

I’ve been saying this for a yr.

Don’t beg for negative responses for laughs, and I won’t deliver your wishes.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2024, 09:20:33 AM by Animl-AW »
Aces High III - Masters of the Air Scenario (video)
https://youtu.be/rQiA2yMiZf0?si=Ct5p_Vv0YXgmRxKs

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Offline AKIron

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2024, 09:22:06 AM »
Pouting and throwing tantrums because they want it now is as amusing as spouting dire predictions while claiming they knew it wouldn't last years ago. All will be forgiven by the impatient very soon and the prognosticators of doom will be forgotten.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline hazmatt

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2024, 09:28:20 AM »
Combatbox server on IL2 has a support option for their dev. Does DCS offer something like this?

https://www.patreon.com/join/combatbox

Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2024, 09:37:47 AM »
Pouting and throwing tantrums because they want it now is as amusing as spouting dire predictions while claiming they knew it wouldn't last years ago. All will be forgiven by the impatient very soon and the prognosticators of doom will be forgotten.

You mean the same thing dished out about AH? Sound familiar? What goes around comes around.

I hope I’m wrong, I don’t like watching friends get ripped off due to over-selling a bad system. I said all of this a yr ago.

That said AH was smashed and harmed by DCS doomsayers. Time to take what was put out. Its called karma.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2024, 09:44:39 AM by Animl-AW »
Aces High III - Masters of the Air Scenario (video)
https://youtu.be/rQiA2yMiZf0?si=Ct5p_Vv0YXgmRxKs

Windows 11 Gaming Tweaks
https://imgur.com/oEtVMfP

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2024, 09:45:43 AM »
Of all the crazy, deranged out of left field crap you spew at people on here


This is the only thing I agree with.

I have only been playing DCS since 2020 and the one constant thing about that game


is the company's horrible business practices.

Depends on what you are referring to.

* I'll take buy to own rather than endless subscription any day.

* They didn't have to go spend years to clean up Oleg's WWII Kickstarter fiasco at their own expense, but they did.*

* Their modules are pricey, but extremely detailed and effort increases exponentially with complexity.  It is not linear.  I think the module prices are reasonable given what you receive especially given how frequent they have sells.

* I can think of pros and cons to the Halfganistan approach.  I haven't taken a stand on that.

* They take too long to produce a module.  Even with the complexity, they have to speed up their process. 

* The WWII Asset pack made sense for a while at first, but at this point it is working against their interests.

* The Razbam thing is unclear.  Everyone is going to take a side even without information. ;)  I think it looks like a Razbam issue at least as believably as a ED issue.  Seems to be Razbam is in some violation of contract on something and ED is withholding payment until Razbam gets back into compliance.  There is as much evidence for that case as any other.  Hardball, but that is business.

* Early Access program seems reasonable given the complexity of some of these platforms.  We had plenty of fun with that APache before FCR came out.  There would have been no point waiting for that.   

* I do wonder if the whole Pre-Pay thing is more trouble that it's worth and will often lead to hard feelings.  As much as I joke about the Kiowa, I've never paid a penny for it so that is a different feeling than if Poplychop already had my money for 6 months.

« Last Edit: May 22, 2024, 09:48:12 AM by CptTrips »
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2024, 10:04:34 AM »
Combatbox server on IL2 has a support option for their dev. Does DCS offer something like this?

https://www.patreon.com/join/combatbox

Well CB is a volunteer customer based effort. 

You support ED by buying their products.

Many of the mod builders \ server admins will have a donation or Buy-Me-A-Coffee thing available.

Someone actually suggested in a thread that ED consider moving to a subscription approach.  Nick Grey even addressed that in one interview.  Bottom line, for a variety of reasons, they have stated ED has no intentions of moving toward a subscription model.

A few surprising outliers aside, I'd say the vast percentage of respondents were against the idea of paying a subscription.  Like 95%+ against subscriptions. 
I prefer to pay rather than subscribe.  Witholding my money until some milestone is reached is my only leverage.  If they were already getting my money in subscription no matter what, even before delivering something, would they be as motivated?





 

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Offline hazmatt

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2024, 10:09:44 AM »

* The WWII Asset pack made sense for a while at first, but at this point it is working against their interests.


Couple questions on this one. I hadn't heard of it before.
-From what i read you can fly a B17 and drive a Tiger tank with this pack? I thought all this stuff was just AI.
-How is it working against their interests?

Offline hazmatt

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2024, 10:16:35 AM »
Well CB is a volunteer customer based effort. 

You support ED by buying their products.

Many of the mod builders \ server admins will have a donation or Buy-Me-A-Coffee thing available.

Someone actually suggested in a thread that ED consider moving to a subscription approach.  Nick Grey even addressed that in one interview.  Bottom line, for a variety of reasons, they have stated ED has no intentions of moving toward a subscription model.

A few surprising outliers aside, I'd say the vast percentage of respondents were against the idea of paying a subscription.  Like 95%+ against subscriptions. 
I prefer to pay rather than subscribe.  Witholding my money until some milestone is reached is my only leverage.  If they were already getting my money in subscription no matter what, even before delivering something, would they be as motivated?

I agree with the 95%. I just think it would be helpful for me to be able to spend my money where I would like to see the development if I wanted to spend money.
For example:
-Dev number 1 is working on developing a plane that I have no interest in. Others have intrest and have an option to donate to see it completed.
-Dev number 2 is working on a plane I am interested in. I'd like to be able to donate (if I want) to help see it through.

Offline AKIron

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2024, 10:34:39 AM »
It's here.



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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2024, 10:39:08 AM »
Couple questions on this one. I hadn't heard of it before.
-From what i read you can fly a B17 and drive a Tiger tank with this pack? I thought all this stuff was just AI.
-How is it working against their interests?

I wasn't there at the time, but from what I can piece together, back in 2014ish time frame Oleg of IL2 fame and some other Russians were putting together a Kickstarter project to build a layer of WWII assets piggybacking on the DCS simulation framework. 

This was greenlit by ED but not their project.  Like how ED greenlit Heatblur to be allowed to go off and develop the F-4E.  ED's license to go make the attempt, but Oleg's project to complete.

Well something went wrong at some point and the project collapsed leaving a bunch of players screwed who had donated.  That wasn't ED's fault but it hurt the band image so ED had to take over finish up what was already in the works and try and find ways of compensating people who had donated with store credits and such.    I think that was a mench move.

But that is why you have this weird, half-finished, strangely unfocused half implementation of DCS WWII now.  I think ED's longer term vision for DCS was a BoB and then PTO packs (two of the CEO's obsessions) they probably figured fine, let Oleg do Normandy.  Having to stop and go clean up that mess put them years behind their own plans for WWII.  I think the coming PTO stuff will be the first glimpse at what ED itself had intended for WWII.  They are probably starting with PTO to deny Combat Pilot an uncontested entry point.

With IL2 dropping the ball and moving from WWII to Korea, no might be the time for ED to make their move on WWII before Combat Pilot becomes a real threat.

The WWII Asset Pack is left over from the Kickstarter thing.  It made sense early on for them to charge separately for that to recover their costs from having to finish it and it not really being part of their stuff.  But by now, they must have broken even.   It works against their interest by being a real drag on enticing new WWII players.  No were else do you have to pay separately for the building and vehicles and AI planes you find on their other maps.  It makes WWII players feel like second-class citizens in the DCS ecosystem.  No F-16 pilot has to pay extra to have a BMP3 object ot put on a map to bomb.

The WWII Asset pack at this point should be free with the purchase of any WWII warbird or terrain as a bonus.  Let the module\map makers kick in a surcharge to ED from their sales to cover the pack costs.  IMHO it holds back DCS WWII.  Like buying a new car and then they ask if you'd like tires and a steering wheel to go along with that?  Wut?  ;)

*The WWII Asset pack is all period style statics and AI planes like the B-17.
* https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/comments





« Last Edit: May 22, 2024, 10:47:39 AM by CptTrips »
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Hey Animl, got some ammo for ya
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2024, 11:00:05 AM »
Depends on what you are referring to.

* I'll take buy to own rather than endless subscription any day.

* They didn't have to go spend years to clean up Oleg's WWII Kickstarter fiasco at their own expense, but they did.*

* Their modules are pricey, but extremely detailed and effort increases exponentially with complexity.  It is not linear.  I think the module prices are reasonable given what you receive especially given how frequent they have sells.

* I can think of pros and cons to the Halfganistan approach.  I haven't taken a stand on that.

* They take too long to produce a module.  Even with the complexity, they have to speed up their process. 

* The WWII Asset pack made sense for a while at first, but at this point it is working against their interests.

* The Razbam thing is unclear.  Everyone is going to take a side even without information. ;)  I think it looks like a Razbam issue at least as believably as a ED issue.  Seems to be Razbam is in some violation of contract on something and ED is withholding payment until Razbam gets back into compliance.  There is as much evidence for that case as any other.  Hardball, but that is business.

* Early Access program seems reasonable given the complexity of some of these platforms.  We had plenty of fun with that APache before FCR came out.  There would have been no point waiting for that.   

* I do wonder if the whole Pre-Pay thing is more trouble that it's worth and will often lead to hard feelings.  As much as I joke about the Kiowa, I've never paid a penny for it so that is a different feeling than if Poplychop already had my money for 6 months.

Hmm, maybe bad wording, don’t get me wrong…this payment system IS popular with players, its a good selling point..however its a nightmare for accounting the second AC aren’t coming out. Great for the player, not healthy for a company. If the company suffers the player will eat it. No reason for repeat.

My opinion of the game play has zero to do with numbers, numbers are math, math is absolute. One has to separate one self from opinion and study the numbers to arrive at an accurate prediction. Mixed with odds, human nature and patterns.

My opinion?
AH - a lot of dogfights, w/ good graphics
DCS - great graphics w/ some dogfighting

Neither is better, its as personal preference as music.
A lot of people like beer, I don’t like beer, I don’t drink beer. A lot of people prefer wine, some scotch,…Different mindsets.

My objection?
Talking about McDs in Burger King is one thing, who cares? Walking in Burger King with a McDs bag and talking to BK customers about it is in bad taste, provocative. It rarely ends well. In provocation words are exchanged, words exchange promotes drama, drama is a scene, a scene causes damage. There seems to be motive to cause damage in the design. It’s similar to someone walking by your car and keying the side. It was a conscience decision. Intensionally scratch the car I love and we’re at war, rightfully so. Nothing abnormal about my reaction. It should have been predictable.

My attitude?
I don’t walk away from fights, I go face first into it. I have zero to lose, everything I had is gone x4, I cannot be intimidated. No one on earth can hurt me more than has already been done. Does someone actually think I’m going to melt when called poopy butt? I will fight the good fight, however ridiculous. I sleep well.

I’m a good human with good intentions. I disrespect, those who disrespect me. Those who respect me get the shirt off my back. I refuse to change that.

Don’t mistake my harsh words for anger nor weakness, that’s how I talk to people who push disrespect on me. Words cannot damage me, but they show me who someone is and who to avoid.

Those who life has not porked them yet, may have issues understanding my way. I’m not worried about it. I own myself.
Aces High III - Masters of the Air Scenario (video)
https://youtu.be/rQiA2yMiZf0?si=Ct5p_Vv0YXgmRxKs

Windows 11 Gaming Tweaks
https://imgur.com/oEtVMfP