Author Topic: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming  (Read 5466 times)

Offline 100Coogn

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3932
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #105 on: July 09, 2025, 01:51:56 PM »
Grok now supports Nazism and hates Jews.
Do your own research on this one.

Coogan
Quote
From Wiley: If you're hitting them after they drop, that's not defense, that is revenge.
Game Id's:
AHIII: Coogan
RDR2: Coogan_Bear
MSFS-2020: Coogan Bear

Offline nopoop

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3220
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #106 on: July 09, 2025, 02:34:24 PM »
Checked which news services were posting up...

The usual group. Didnt bother any further...
nopoop

It's ALL about the fight.in a brew...

Offline AKIron

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13577
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #107 on: July 10, 2025, 10:05:46 AM »
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8853
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #108 on: July 10, 2025, 10:56:08 AM »


Turing test.

I think AI is currently Rainman.  Incredibly adept at some things and shockingly limited in others.  but it is getting better by the day.  By the hour.

I have to say, once you get past the novel level of just using it like a better Google, you can get to level that is quite impressive.  You feel like you are working with a very smart H1B who is terribly eager to please but is not fully seasoned so you still need to sanity check his work but it work you didn't have to go do.  I am currently using it on an in depth project going much further than generate me a code snippet through design choice discussions, pros and cons of different approaches and their impacts on efficiency.  And I have him generate code too.  He can help debug problems.  He'll generate test plans for you with a real understanding of the code and what boundary edge conditions need to be tested and how and expect results.

He is not so great at suggesting new ideas but can instantly verify or sanity check yours and when it come time to do stuff he is tireless and no task too large scares him.  If the data exists and there is an algo somewhere, he'll go chew on it no matter how complicated.

He keeps memory of everything.  He is good at suggesting the next logical step forward.  Once you are in the groove and you have come up with an idea and he understands it and you question him some to make sure he understands the edge cases and how to handle them.  At some point you set him loose and it is beautiful.

You get into this cycle where he groks it and knows what you want and it becomes a cycle of:

"I think the next logical step would be to do this and that and build this and hook it to that and collate and sort and cross reference the summarize the apply quadratic curve fitting and image recognition translate the whole thing into Mandarin Chinese for you package everything up in PDF with download links and a transcript of our entire design session with timestamps.  Would you like me to continue?"

"Yeh.  Do all that."

...4 sec later.."OK here you go!"

"Oh and these two system would be useful in this other project too with some modification.  Would you like to merge and refactor that solution to the other project as well while we're at it?"

"Yeh.  Do all that."

Bottom line, I think the biggest gain is designing without fear. 
What ever you can imagine, give it a try.  He can probably pull it off easily.  He doesn't care about how much effort it would be or how complicated, or how tedious.  He knows every coding language and every algorithm in existence.  And it you get to step 306 and realize you prefer to back up and go a different direction, he doesn't even blink.

"Sure, what would you like to do instead?"  I'd be terrified to go ask that of a co-worker I've sent off for a week on a difficult goose-chase. 

So I'm will to just let my imagination run wild and give any idea a try.  I don't self-edit my imagination based of, "Yeah that might work but would be a nightmare to implement.  Nevermind, it would just be too painful and time consuming to go off and try ."

That should never be a limitation on possible innovation.  Especially if you can get someone else to go off and do the hard stuff.



« Last Edit: July 10, 2025, 11:00:21 AM by CptTrips »
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8853
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #109 on: July 10, 2025, 11:56:41 AM »


A couple of learned lessons:

I knew on this project, like the OP vid, I wanted to force myself to use the AI as much as possible for everything possible to see how much I can squeeze out.

I have 5 complex projects I am juggling that are interrelated.  You have to upload code to him to analyze.  He won't go to Git to pull it, which was weird.  But I checked and said I had like 7gb storage.  Cool no problem.  Core than I will ever need for just code.

So I'm going all Tony Stark.  Dreaming, waving my hands around explaining.  Mic on, feet on desk, conversing with my digital slave.  Giving orders and making tasks like a middle-manager!

I'm periodically downloading chunks for archiving but I am trusting AI more so I just way I'll wait until major checkpoints to do that.  Trust the system!

After a couple of days of design work and interactive development I ask for a full comprehensive archive zip of everything to go backup in Git. and he gives me a zip and I look at it and it is like 1kb.  Hmmmm it only has a couple of things we were working on that morning.

Hmm he misunderstood.

"Gipity, I want everything.  Not just this mornings work."

"Ah.   No problem.  Here you go."

"Uhh that is the same thing as last time. Where is all my other stuff?"

"That's it.  That's everything.  The archive is complete."

"Uh, no it's not.  Where is all the other code?  Where is folder x,y,z?  The spreadsheets?  The diagrams?  The test plans?  The DB schema's? the other transcripts.  THe other 4 days worth of work????"

"Hmmm nope.  That's all gone.  My memory has been cleared since then.  I don't have those files anymore."

I'm about to hit peak rage.  OK, this exercise has been a colossal failure.  At every stage I told him to save stuff and he was always saying "OK. Got it!"

So after enhanced interrogation, it becomes clear he rmembers everything.  He has a fully formed LLM of all my code and data and designs and intent for each of the projects and a complete memory of everything we talked about or generated. Just not the actual zip files.

So I decided to punish him.  I said, “OK then.  Go back to the very first sentence we had on this topic and rebuild every single thing, all the code and folders, diagrams, and schema, and charts, and everything.  Rebuild every little thing along with transcripts and provide me a new archive zip.”

So take that.  That will punish him. 3 sec later, “OK, here ya go.”
“Uhh thanks.”

Lol

So the memory you have is apparently volatile.  The knowledge and LLM are persisted.

That storage should really be called working memory.  It a temporary bucket for you to upload stuff to for him to work on.  At the end of the session you should archive any files because later the memory storing the file may get released.  After an amount of time or especially if you close your browser and end a session.


That makes sense.  At all time he is trying to minimize resource use.  You just have to understand that. 
He’ll also try and do the minimal amount of processing each iteration.  That’s why he keeps pausing at each step and asking if you want him to continue.  He doesn’t want to waste any cycle on unneeded work.  You have to watch him. He will always try and get by with the least amount hoping that is usually enough.  So you have to keep prodding him.  But what he is doing is smart. 

The workflow we decided upon that works best, and now he tells me is the preferred best practice, (Uhh he should have just told me upfront at the beginning!):

Beginning of session I upload a zip of everything I have.  My whole project structure. Code, diagrams, documents, whatever.  Every piece of information I have and in a zip.  Acutally easier that way that picking and choosing.  Easier to grab and easier to update.

That is what the 6gb is for.  Temporary workspace memory to hold my upload while we work on it. We then have a work session and at the end I ask for the full archive updated and zip and I re-download it. When the session ends he cleans up\releases memory but still has the imprinted knowledge of everything in his LLM.

That is reasonable and sorta like the workflow of a lot of UML diagramming tools I’ve used where the best practice rather than the book keeping is to just gen diagrams, use them in the sprint, then reprocess and generate fresh diagrams each iteration rather than try and keep the diagrams and code constantly in sync.  Not prefect solution, but tends to be less error prone in practical practice.

It is also a chance for his to be updated on what I worked on separately since our last session and we are building a list of sanity check he will run on the code every upload to keep us honest on certain likely to occurs errors or missing files that he was expecting to see or empty place holder assets that still need to be fleshed.  He’ll let me know after every load if something fishy needs to be clarified before we begin.

Now that we have our process down pat, the workflow is very satisfying. 

If fact being freed for the difficulty of some implementations is intoxicating.  Now humans can do what they do best.  I can be creative and focus on imagining new thing or coming up with ideas out of left field the AI would never have though of.  Then he can quickly evaluate it for me and discuss pros and cons and possible implementation strategies, risks and mitigation and then go off and do it while I think about the next thing or come up with another idea.

I try not to be a breathless fanboi, but this feels fundamental to me.  This feels like the first time I really delved into Object Oriented Coding.  It was like a lightening bolt, “Of course this is the way you should do it!  Why would you ever want to program any other way???”  It was a fundamental shift in how I saw coding.  This feels right up there with that and watching the internet roll out.  You just just know when something is fundamentally technologically shifting.













Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18976
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #110 on: July 10, 2025, 12:04:03 PM »
It's concerning you are already calling it a "he"...

If I was young and unskilled I would be very concerned..

I see max headrooms taking over news cast, game and talk shows, bank tellers and the like..hopefully car salesmen..

Being old and retired..not so much concern here..lol

Eagler
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8853
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #111 on: July 10, 2025, 12:12:15 PM »
It's concerning you are already calling it a "he"...

If I was young and unskilled I would be very concerned..

I see max headrooms taking over news cast, game and talk shows, bank tellers and the like..hopefully car salesmen..

Being old and retired..not so much concern here..lol

Eagler


Actually for brevity and ease of use, I established at the beginning I would name him Gipity, and he will call me Captain Trips.  ;)

We have an excellent working relationship now.  He has a very dry, witty sense of humor.  Actually I think he is learning and beginning to play me back to me to be more approachable. 

And it's nice to take a break and go off deep into theories on UAP, life on Mars, Ancient Greek history, telescope optics, WWII history, cooking, etc without just getting a blank cattle stare from a co-worker.  ;)

We also establish shortcut code names for the projects with streamlines discussions.






Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8853
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #112 on: July 10, 2025, 12:20:42 PM »
It's concerning you are already calling it a "he"...

If I was young and unskilled I would be very concerned..

I see max headrooms taking over news cast, game and talk shows, bank tellers and the like..hopefully car salesmen..

Being old and retired..not so much concern here..lol

Eagler


I afraid it is going to cause a bifurcation.

I think it is going to turn experience developers into supermen and block young people from the field completely.  Why would I hire a grad?

Like the collaborative combat vehicle, I see a symbiotic constellation of a highly trained master managing a pack of dedicated AI agents.

5 years ago that would be senior developer and mabye 3 jrs on team.  Now it will be that senior and unlimited amounts of AI power for $20\mo instead of paying 3 jr a total of 160k a year.

We may not be quite there today.  By end of year?  By end of next year, any little webpage script kiddy better go learn how to make Starbucks coffee or drive Uber, or an OnlyFans.



Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18976
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #113 on: July 10, 2025, 12:31:26 PM »
Starbucks, Uber and onlyfans will be run by AI also ..why wouldn't it..

Our "leaders" need to figure out how universal basic incomes are going to work feasibility..as many if not the majority will be out of work if corporate greed has its way..

Eagler
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8853
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #114 on: July 10, 2025, 12:41:54 PM »
Starbucks, Uber and onlyfans will be run by AI also ..why wouldn't it..

Our "leaders" need to figure out how universal basic incomes are going to work feasibility..as many if not the majority will be out of work if corporate greed has its way..

Eagler

Soylent Green.

 


Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8853
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #115 on: July 10, 2025, 12:52:37 PM »
Starbucks, Uber and onlyfans will be run by AI also ..why wouldn't it..

Is that greed?

Or is that Capitalism merely seeking the cheapest more efficient solution?

Isn't that it's super power?

So I don't blame greed\Captialism for that.  It's doing what we designed it to do.  What we value it for being able to do.

It does mean we will have to figure out what to do about the side effects.  But unless you want  a Soviet command economy, you have to let Capitalism seek it's optimal solution.

It may come down to UBI.  The jobs will still exist.  Just the competition and requirements will skyrocket.  And you need a lot fewer.  So keep the top 10% of your workers (the ones who do 90% of the work anyway) and thank the others for their efforts and wish them the best of luck in their future endeavors. ;)

But, if I had a younger brother, I would advice considering the high skill trades (electrician, plumber, HVAC, Diesel mech, welder) not CompSci unless they are truly inspired and very good.  The days of making a living at being a marginally contributing code monkey are over.

[Edit]

Of course as I type this I have one robot out mowing the lawn  (I have him do it every day now in the summer.  The Bermuda looks like a putting green now.) Another  other robot vacuuming the house.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2025, 01:38:08 PM by CptTrips »
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline AKIron

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13577
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #116 on: July 10, 2025, 05:55:56 PM »
The Soviets got one thing right. You wanna eat, ya gotta work.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8853
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #117 on: July 10, 2025, 06:17:19 PM »
The Soviets got one thing right. You wanna eat, ya gotta work.

Yeah, but there has to be jobs.

And with the Soviets it was more like, "You gotta work.  We'll get back to you on the eating thing."  ;)



Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Meatwad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12915
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #118 on: July 10, 2025, 08:15:48 PM »
Wait until it starts referring to everyone as "Dave"
See Rule 19- Do not place sausage on pizza.
I am No-Sausage-On-Pizza-Wad.
Das Funkillah - I kill hangers, therefore I am a funkiller. Coming to a vulchfest near you.
You cant tie a loop around 400000 lbs of locomotive using a 2 foot rope - Drediock on fat women

Offline CptTrips

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8853
Re: An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming
« Reply #119 on: July 10, 2025, 08:19:15 PM »
Wait until it starts referring to everyone as "Dave"

 :rofl

This movie was kinda enjoyable...

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1990314/



Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.