An intersting discussion on AI augmented programming

[Brooke]

Is there an advantage to more people?  Just to have more?

I think so.

Consider a single molecule in a box. It bounces around. You can sort of predict it. Not that interesting.

Get 10^23 molecules in a box, and you get emergent phenomena, like sound waves and turbulence, which you probably wouldn't predict from watching one molecule.  A higher level of stuff going on.

Get a bunch of those, and you get single cells.  They have another layer of emergent phenomena.  Reproduction, metabolism, etc., which isn't predictable from looking at sound waves and turbulence.

Get a trillion cells, and you get humans and human brains. Sentience, thought, invention, emotion. Things you wouldn't necessarily predict looking at an individual cell.

Get a billion humans, and you get a world of nations, with technologies, art, etc. not imagined by any one previous human.  A new layer of emergence.

What happens if you get a million or billion worlds?  Do we get another layer of emergent phenomena not imagined by one world today?

[CptTrips]

I think that man's destiny is colonization of space.

Pfft.

I got a friend who always says that.  For when the asteroid come we have to be out in space to save the race.

Not me.  Again, go look at your average Walmart.  Imagine being stuck in tight quarters with those people in a tin can in space for the rest of your natural life.

I'd rather get a lawn char, margarita, sun glasses and 4000 rad sun block and just enjoy the season finale.

[CptTrips]

What happens to rats in overcrowded conditions?
Overcrowding in rats can lead to a breakdown of social behavior, increased stress, aggression, and potentially even population collapse,.
Here's a breakdown of the negative consequences of packing rats too tightly:

1. Increased stress and aggression
Rats exhibit more aggressive behaviors like fighting and chasing each other.
They may show signs of anxiety and stress like freezing, avoiding social interaction, and displaying aggression during introductions to new rats.
Overcrowded rats demonstrate higher levels of emotional reactivity and adrenal response to stress compared to those in adequately sized spaces.
Dominance hierarchies can be disrupted, leading to increased fighting and social instability, according to the RSPCA.

2. Physiological impacts
Chronic overcrowding can elevate stress hormones like corticosterone.
It can negatively impact physiological outcomes like organ weights, hormone secretion, and cardiovascular health.
Overcrowding during pregnancy can affect offspring birth weight, pubertal timing, and reproductive behavior, potentially influencing future generations.

3. Social and behavioral changes
Increased huddling and decreased social play are common in crowded conditions.
Rats may exhibit more escape behaviors, increased fear of new things, and reduced exploration.
In extreme cases, overcrowding can lead to social withdrawal, hypersexual behavior, cannibalism, and even infanticide, culminating in a decline in the population, according to research cited by the National Institutes of Health (NIH).

4. Health problems
Rats in crowded conditions may experience respiratory issues due to poor air circulation and higher ammonia levels.
Overcrowding can make them more susceptible to various diseases, including salmonellosis, leptospirosis, and lymphocytic choriomeningitis.
In short, providing ample space is crucial for the physical and psychological well-being of rats, preventing stress, aggression, and ultimately, maintaining a healthy and stable social environment. The University of Rochester Medical Center recommends specific cage size requirements based on the weight of the rats.

Does this not sound like modern Americans?

[Meatwad]

Pfft.

I got a friend who always says that.  For when the asteroid come we have to be out in space to save the race.

Not me.  Again, go look at your average Walmart.  Imagine being stuck in tight quarters with those people in a tin can in space for the rest of your natural life.

I'd rather get a lawn char, margarita, sun glasses and 4000 rad sun block and just enjoy the season finale.

The screening process would keep that from happening. That way you are not stuck sitting next to a 400 pound behemoth dressed like the purple people eater

[CptTrips]

The screening process would keep that from happening. That way you are not stuck sitting next to a 400 pound behemoth dressed like the purple people eater

Peter Sellers is the GOAT.

[caldera]

Peter Sellers is the GOAT.

"We cannot allow a mine shaft gap!"

[CptTrips]

"We cannot allow a mine shaft gap!"

"Gentlemen!  We can not allow fighting in the War Room!"

[Brooke]

"Gentlemen!  We can not allow fighting in the War Room!"

Contaminating our precious bodily fluids.

[Brooke]

Pfft.

I got a friend who always says that.  For when the asteroid come we have to be out in space to save the race.

Not just that, but the aspect of what you get when you have 10^N worlds instead of 1.

None of this is a math proof, though. Depends what one thinks is the purpose of existence, or what to strive for long term. All subjective.

[Brooke]

Does this not sound like modern Americans?

Among the good things, humans have been stressed out, fighting and killing each other, starving to death since before recorded history. From the invention of the first city onward, humans have periodically died in disease-ridden hordes in close quarters.

People have romantic notions of the past, or pick 1982 or whatever as a spot in time that was best.  But on average over time and over people, life has gotten better and better. Not worse. Life expectancy, wealth per person, energy per person, quality of life per person, all better today than before.

[CptTrips]

Among the good things, humans have been stressed out, fighting and killing each other, starving to death since before recorded history. From the invention of the first city onward, humans have periodically died in disease-ridden hordes in close quarters.

People have romantic notions of the past, or pick 1982 or whatever as a spot in time that was best.  But on average over time and over people, life has gotten better and better. Not worse. Life expectancy, wealth per person, energy per person, quality of life per person, all better today than before.

Is that why New York city is so much nicer place to live than average mid sized middle American town?   

I wouldn't say NY is a nicer place to live than say Denver or Sante Fe.

But it does have a lot more people packed in tight.  Coincidence?

[Brooke]

Is that why life in New York city is so much nicer place to live than average mid sized middle American town?

I wouldn't say NY is a nicer place to live than say Denver or Sante Fe.

But it does have a lot more people packed in tight.  Coincidence?

I have pals who could live anywhere who prefer NYC. There are lots of people with preferences like that.  To them, NYC goes through waves of better and worse, depending on who runs the place and their policies, not depending on density fluctuations.

Manhattan (to choose a defined area) peak population was in 1910 (2.3M).  Its population as gone up and down.  Today is 1.7M.  What was its best decade?  1960's had 1.7M.  1870's had 1M people.

Tokyo, Taipei, Singapore are high density but safe.

Density is pretty high in some old European towns that people think have good quality of life (ones built up a hill, or crammed into a little valley).

In college, I lived in a dorm of 1300 people packed in.  It was a blast.  And safe.  It was sort of like living on a space ship.  But I wouldn't want to live in a 1300 person favela in Brasil.

I don't think density is the main determiner of quality of life for a locale.

[AKIron]

AI will decide what's best for us and we WILL like it.