Author Topic: 88s = Lets do this!  (Read 854 times)

Offline Slade

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88s = Lets do this!
« on: September 14, 2025, 11:54:19 AM »
For the love of all things good, let us have a kill if we destroy a manned 88!  :old:
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Offline oTRALFZo

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Re: 88s = Lets do this!
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2025, 09:24:06 AM »
Agree.
Although soft guns are usually by default last line of defense. Many are using them primarily as all reward and no risk of their names in the kill messages. 
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Offline AKKuya

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Re: 88s = Lets do this!
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2025, 05:26:30 PM »
it would be fair to get credit for all manned gun kills including those gunning in AC and GV. 
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Online The Fugitive

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Re: 88s = Lets do this!
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2025, 10:28:18 PM »
For the love of all things good, let us have a kill if we destroy a manned 88!  :old:

Why? There are no points involved. The only thing that it would show is kills as you land. Big deal.

Offline Slade

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Re: 88s = Lets do this!
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2025, 09:11:00 AM »
Quote
Many are using them primarily as all reward and no risk of their names in the kill messages. 

BINGO!

C'mon already.  If they are going to be used as a primary defense by 88 "sharp-shooters", not planes, give us credit for killing them.  Balance this abuse.

Thank you.
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Offline Slade

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Re: 88s = Lets do this!
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2025, 09:15:31 AM »
ChatGPT:

Q:
In WWII, where there any functionally 88 "sharp-shooters" that killed fighter planes with uncanny accuracy?

A:
The short answer:
There were no individual “88 sharpshooters” in the sense of a single gunner being renowned for uncanny, sniper-like accuracy against fighters. The 88 was a crew-served, fire-controlled weapon, and aerial kills were the product of teamwork, radar or optical predictors, and heavy barrages — not one man’s aim.

How it worked:

• Crew of 8–10 men: one person didn’t “sight” and pull the trigger like a rifle. Each crewman had a specialized job (layer, trainer, loader, fuze setter, commander).

• Fire control: accuracy against high-speed aircraft required predictors (rangefinders, later radar inputs) to compute altitude, course, speed, and fuze setting. This info was transmitted electrically to the guns.

• Barrage vs. precision: success came from putting shells into the predicted flight path, filling a “box” in the sky. Hitting a fast fighter directly was extremely difficult — more common against bombers.

• Kill credit: anti-aircraft artillery usually did not assign kills to individual guns or gunners. Claims were collective to a battery, battalion, or sector.


Against fighters:

• The 88 could shoot down fighters, but it was much more effective against bombers (big, less maneuverable targets).

• Fighters that flew low (e.g. strafing or dive-bombing) sometimes fell to single-gun fire — but this was usually credited to flak generically, not a heroic “ace gunner.”

• Allied pilots often feared “flak belts” more than dogfights, but they described them as walls of fire, not “sniper shots.”


Mic drop.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2025, 09:21:18 AM by Slade »
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Online The Fugitive

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Re: 88s = Lets do this!
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2025, 10:18:14 AM »
Lets ask ChatGPT a few more questions....

How many pilots died in WWII?

ChatGPT,

"Total Estimated Pilot/Aircrew Deaths in WWII

Roughly 250,000 to 300,000 aircrew killed globally."

In Aces High.... 0

How many "one shot, one kills type of engagments in a T34 in WWII?

ChatGPT,

Yes, T-34 tanks did achieve one-shot kills, especially:

Against lighter tanks

With ambush tactics

With upgraded guns (T-34/85)

No, there are no official or reliable numbers on how many total one-shot kills they made.

It was likely common in some battles, but not reliably documented.

Aces High, all the time and too numerous to count.

There is no comparison of WWII and a game based on WWII equipment. Aces High is a game and some things are "adjusted" for playability. In WWII the B17 was crewed by 10 men, here a single player can crew three B17s and do it well if you run into Finetime.

So the 88 is crewed by one player, and why are some of them so accurate? Because they have had a lot of practice. A crew in an 88, during the war, for the full time of their career would have fired the same number of rounds as some of these players do in a day playing the game. They cant help but get better at it.

And again, why do you need credit for killing an 88? The gunner gets no points, nothing toward score or ranking. The only thing they get for spending all that time in a gun is their name in lights when they leave it. So if it was adjusted, the best you can get is your name in lights, no points toward score or ranks, just your name in lights, IF you land them.

Offline Slade

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Re: 88s = Lets do this!
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2025, 11:40:56 AM »
Fugitive,

Good points.  :salute

Quote
"And again, why do you need credit for killing an 88?"

It just makes natural sense - if you kill an object with a real-person in it shooting at you, you should get a kill for for it.  :old:
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Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: 88s = Lets do this!
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2025, 01:04:30 PM »
I agree that the person shooting the manned gun should get their name in lights, after all, the person pointing and shooting taking 0 risks gets theirs in lights and no one knows it was by a manned gun. I cannot stand the kill messages because it gives me away without me knowing whose going after me. Its a huge advantage. If that manned gunner knows its me, and doesnt like me, they will go hamm only shooting at me, just for example. I also think there should be no puff ack 88 manned gun. It takes players out of planes and tanks and makes them lazy. It ruins long sorties for people getting snipped from 7k away at times. Only on ships should it be allowed to be manned.
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Offline Dadtallica

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Re: 88s = Lets do this!
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2025, 01:44:26 PM »
I like this idea. The kills would be more for detracting stats from user of the 88 than it would be to benefit the pilot.
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Offline shotgunneeley

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Re: 88s = Lets do this!
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 08:49:17 PM »
I have always advocated for a more developed sighting system in line with the real-life system. In Aces High, Create a single position in the tower where a player can track a target, such as a bomber formation, that will create a lead computed target dot for other players to aim at. I envision this tracking system like a manual bomb site calibration where the coordinator must keep the crosshairs for at least two seconds (longer for greater accuracy) on an enemy icon. If radar is functioning, altitude is automatically calculated for a particular enemy icon - if radar is disabled, altitude must be manually input by the target coordinator. Players manning the 88s can train their guns however they want, but the fuse setting is determined by the input of the coordinator - not the individual 88 gunner. An individual 88 gunner can switch to AT mode and not be affected by the coordinator input. Coordinator earns a kill/assist for each of the gunners in the 88 battery who claim a kill.

As far as credit goes, some players get more of a kick out of “landing kills” (or ensuring others do not land kills) than earning ranking points. I have viewed AA guns as point-defenses just as valid as aircraft or vehicles because I did not have time to up a fighter to engage bombers or to just protect a field from getting vulched/attacked. It’s simply another medium for players to engage each other, not take away from the overall flight experience. Not sure how it worked in ww2 if planes who targeted AA crews or AA gunners who could without a doubt they caused the enemy to be destroyed gave themselves credit for it. In game I’d say give kill credits and perk points to bombers/attack aircraft (not fighters) who destroy manned AA guns. AA gunners/observers can land kills - but not earn perks.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:29:51 PM by shotgunneeley »
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Offline thndregg

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Re: 88s = Lets do this!
« Reply #11 on: Today at 01:35:46 AM »
I have always advocated for a more developed sighting system in line with the real-life system. In Aces High, Create a single position in the tower where a player can track a target, such as a bomber formation, that will create a lead computed target dot for other players to aim at. I envision this tracking system like a manual bomb site calibration where the coordinator must keep the crosshairs for at least two seconds (longer for greater accuracy) on an enemy icon. If radar is functioning, altitude is automatically calculated for a particular enemy icon - if radar is disabled, altitude must be manually input by the target coordinator. Players manning the 88s can train their guns however they want, but the fuse setting is determined by the input of the coordinator - not the individual 88 gunner. An individual 88 gunner can switch to AT mode and not be affected by the coordinator input. Coordinator earns a kill/assist for each of the gunners in the 88 battery who claim a kill.

As far as credit goes, some players get more of a kick out of “landing kills” (or ensuring others do not land kills) than earning ranking points. I have viewed AA guns as point-defenses just as valid as aircraft or vehicles because I did not have time to up a fighter to engage bombers or to just protect a field from getting vulched/attacked. It’s simply another medium for players to engage each other, not take away from the overall flight experience. Not sure how it worked in ww2 if planes who targeted AA crews or AA gunners who could without a doubt they caused the enemy to be destroyed gave themselves credit for it. In game I’d say give kill credits and perk points to bombers/attack aircraft (not fighters) who destroy manned AA guns. AA gunners/observers can land kills - but not earn perks.

Waaay off topic here, but holy s***, Shotgun! Haven't heard from you in ages. I've been back in AH for a few years, but now fly buffs with the Dickweeds. I'll shoot you a PM.

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