curious what people think?

[The Fugitive]

From the other side, a player who isnt interested in anything other than main arena play. The biggest two nights in terms of population is Friday and Saturday night, with Sunday night a sometimes third. Having an event like this will pull numbers from the MA. That will hurt game play in that arena. Lower numbers will make for more players logging off. What is a new player going to see when they log in?

During the recent scenario we had terrible numbers in the MA. If a new players logs in and sees these kind of numbers during what is most likely the best time for players to play (Saturday night) what are they going to think? They are not going to know how to look at other arenas, nor know what its about. All they are going to see is an old game dying a slow death.

Please dont do this on a Saturday night.

[fudgums]

New players leave because the MA is not fun. Numbers keep dwindling down if we keep doing this same thing.

[The Fugitive]

New players leave because the MA is not fun. Numbers keep dwindling down if we keep doing this same thing.

I dont know, but I have fun in the MA pretty much everytime I play. Creating things that pull players away from the MA doesnt help the game, it dilutes it.

[Devil 505]

I dont know, but I have fun in the MA pretty much everytime I play. Creating things that pull players away from the MA doesnt help the game, it dilutes it.

But the MA isn't the be-all-end-all of Aces High. I suffer through 5-6 hours of MA play a month prepping for FSO and Scenario when those are happening. If this game was just the MA, I would have quit AH over decade ago.

Honestly, fewer people in the MA on an event night would probably more beneficial to a new player. They'll have more time to do their thing and learn the game before getting bounced and killed.

[Animl-AW]

I play the MA nightly, I do have fun and make friends. However, 50% of the reason I am in there is because a Scenario or FSO isn't running. Granted, because of the ultra late CT starting time of FSO, I have not attended once. These events do not run every day. There is a lot of separation between frames. That's basically, 5-6 out of 7 nights per week the MA has the entire masses. If there wasn't events player would burn out on the MA, a change of pace is a good thing, IMO. We can afford 1-2 nights per week for change of pace in a more serious way.

I watch numbers constantly, I understand with lower numbers it can drain the MA,... but it drains the MA because events are fun stuff. They should get involved in events. It's a deeper immersion than the MA. If they sucked they would not have any effect. 1-2 nights 3 times per month is not over-reaching. They take it pretty seriously. New players may look at the arenas and see where a lot are and wished they would have joined.

Yes, there can be too many events, right now I think that's not the case.

That said, lets take note of what Google AI came up with in composing the most common things said out there about AH.

Sell events to keep them in a sub and playing the MA....for practice.

#1

Pros:
Massive Scale & Realism: Huge maps, large-scale historical scenarios, and historically accurate planes, vehicles, and ballistics.

Notice, there is not even one mention of the MA itself, just a general concept mention at the bottom. But scenarios is top shelf in the mention.
Also notice Huge maps is mentioned as a positive.

Scenarios and FSOs do sell the game, no one else has them like this, there are some who only fly events. It is a priority to run our gems. We have to give and take to keep them a draw.

I think if you did not have events you'd lose players. Some don't play because FSO is so late, and a lot of time between scenarios. I watch old vets of AW and AH open a sub just to fly a scenario, after that month they leave again until the next. If they could make it to FSOs times, that might keep them in tow non-stop. Corky is a good example, he played the MA because he took a month sub for an event, he left because there is no scenario running, FSOs are too late for some.

All just IMO, but more think this way than just me.

The MA doesn't start popping until 7p CT, it starts draining at 9p CT anyway. 9p CT is a decent compromise with the MA, That still put a scenario end at midnight CT. It can't be all based on the MA when events sell, the MA doesn't really sell.

Again, IMO.

[Animl-AW]

Another point.
MA averages 95-110 on regular nights with no events.

FSO nights there are 130-135 in the MA, many practicing for the event. So you just gained 20 players in the MA that would not be there if not for the event. Pay attention to that. Same when players take a sub just for a Scenario. You can't sell the game like that for MA numbers and then push it to unacceptable times.

Sell the F out of events, you'll get MA numbers up.

IMO

[fudgums]

More events = more players

Less events = more players leave

[The Fugitive]

More events = more players

Less events = more players leave

If that was the case the MA would be empty EVERY night there was any kind of event. Seeing as it isnt my guess would be that the majority of players these days prefer the MA play to FSO, MNM, or scenarios. FSO still rules the numbers war for events, Scenarios have been falling behind more and more.

Devil505 says he "suffer through 5-6 hours of MA play a month prepping for FSO..." as Im sure there are others. I also believe that many more dont even bother with that and only play FSO/scenarios... which is too bad for the MA. MNM draws what 10-12 players? Proving that a fighter arena will always be under populated.

This idea is the most odd to me as what is proposed is what my squad does every Thursday night in the MA. Sometime we are attacking and taking bases, other times we are defending all night to slow the two front war.  Not sure why we need a weekly event for that outside the MA.

If this game was to survive on events only there would be no need for the MA, chasing away 100 players. Some of us are doing all we can to get the MA numbers up. I just think spliting the numbers we have isnt going to help the game at all. Options are great, but dont spite Peter to pay Paul. Dont kill the numbers on one of the best nights....number wise to have another event, just to have another event. 

[fudgums]

If that was the case the MA would be empty EVERY night there was any kind of event. Seeing as it isnt my guess would be that the majority of players these days prefer the MA play to FSO, MNM, or scenarios. FSO still rules the numbers war for events, Scenarios have been falling behind more and more.
The MA IS empty. Struggles to crack 100. Hard to justify spending 15$ a month on a dead MA and only paying for FSO. You’re right, the only ones left in the MA prefer that, because everyone else has left. 


Devil505 says he "suffer through 5-6 hours of MA play a month prepping for FSO..." as Im sure there are others. I also believe that many more dont even bother with that and only play FSO/scenarios... which is too bad for the MA. MNM draws what 10-12 players? Proving that a fighter arena will always be under populated.

You are incapable of understanding this point. You just constantly scream the same thing for years. People that argue against the current MA just want meaningful action, attacking/defending, the struggle of taking a base or defending it to the end. What you get currently is a horde or squads that just try to sneak undefended base, resupping is more important than upping a plane or gv. It has gotten old, and you can log in at prime time and find that is majority of the case. 

This idea is the most odd to me as what is proposed is what my squad does every Thursday night in the MA. Sometime we are attacking and taking bases, other times we are defending all night to slow the two front war.  Not sure why we need a weekly event for that outside the MA.

A. Historical matchups. B. Point above

If this game was to survive on events only there would be no need for the MA, chasing away 100 players. Some of us are doing all we can to get the MA numbers up. I just think spliting the numbers we have isnt going to help the game at all. Options are great, but dont spite Peter to pay Paul. Dont kill the numbers on one of the best nights....number wise to have another event, just to have another event.

who said anything about surviving on just events? Events bring players in, MA hasn’t brought players in since the 2000s.

More events = more players = more players in the MA(which may make the MA fun again)

[Animl-AW]

Well Fugi, with all due respect I disagree.
60 in an event leaving 80 in the MA, its not a small few.
I think you want no events at all, comes off as biased to your own desires.

You can’t afford POSSIBLE 6-8 nights per month out of 30 days? I think you’re asking a bit too much. It has zero fairness to those who like events. Ya gotta give and take. You have 22-24 nights per month clear for MA

You generally log about 9p CT anyway, with the others <shrug>

<S>

[The Fugitive]

The MA IS empty. Struggles to crack 100. Hard to justify spending 15$ a month on a dead MA and only paying for FSO. You’re right, the only ones left in the MA prefer that, because everyone else has left.

100-120 is when the MA starts going. Anything less and it becomes stagnate. I'll bet it is hard to justify spending $15 a month for just FSO, come play in the MA and make it better.

You are incapable of understanding this point. You just constantly scream the same thing for years. People that argue against the current MA just want meaningful action, attacking/defending, the struggle of taking a base or defending it to the end. What you get currently is a horde or squads that just try to sneak undefended base, resupping is more important than upping a plane or gv. It has gotten old, and you can log in at prime time and find that is majority of the case.

Sure there are still hordes, but who says you have to fight a horde? Get 4-5 guys together and attack a base on another front. Build your own fun, that is what the MA is all about. Instead we get people logging off instead of them trying to start a fight someplace else. My squad is one of the horde squads only because we have a good number of players who not only like working/flying together, but bother to show up.

A. Historical matchups. B. Point above

You already have FSO, and a number of scenarios, but I dont mind another event, but not on Saturday night. If we had 200+ players playing on a Saturday night then fine, it will still have enough numbers to have a some good action in the MA. Historical match ups is a niche in a niche game. Few like it as it is difficult to keep things some what even. Look at how well Axis vs Allies arena has always worked

who said anything about surviving on just events? Events bring players in, MA hasn’t brought players in since the 2000s.

Wheres your proof? I have tried a couple of events and they are just not my cup of tea. I like the near constant action in the MA. Action brings plyers in and the MA can have lots of it.

Well Fugi, with all duerespect I disagree.
60 in an event leaving 80 in the MA, its not a small few.
I think you want no events at all, comes off as biased to your own desires.

So if no events thats kinda selfish, no malice intended.

You can’t afford POSSIBLE 6-8 nigjts oer month out of 30 days? You’re asking too much. It has zero fairness to those who like events. Ya gotta give and take. You have 22-24 nights per month clear for MA

Not pickin a fight, its just a lol over the top when considering all players as a whole. Ya can’t have it all

You genetally log about 9p CT anyway, with the others <shrug>

<S>

I never said no events. I respect those players that enjoy them, Im just not one of them. No I would just hate to see this on a Saturday night. If the event pulls 20 players, that drop the MA to 80 and we never hit critical mass, and players just log off. How many new players logging in to see that are going to stick around? No action, no new players.

[fudgums]

Whole lot of “I” and “me”, sounds very lame.

- Struggles to crack 100 but needs 100-120 for things to start getting good.
- “my squad is a horde squad” eeek
- people get drawn to AH for events. It’s the only thing that the game has a leg up on competitors.
- “I Like the constant action of the MA” we must have different definitions because the action on nights that don’t have events is dry..except when there are events on. Wonder why.

[Eagler]

No knight fight last night between 8 and 9..AGAIN

The fact that the fun varieties of AH involve only 2 sides should be a sign to some of you stuck with the 3 sided mentality..

Eagler

[Animl-AW]

Well, lets look at MotA.
Last night I found old threads on other boards when some went out and pushed AH. Basically MotA was used and was promoting it. We popped from 130-140 to 200 in the MA, thats a gain of 60-70. Granted we had the movie promo to set a mental image.

When it was over and no huge events in sight the numbers dropped down. Granted, at the time a lot of pure drama crap swallowed the bbs. That drove many off too. So its not clear what caused it, but the MA alone didn’t hold it. Promo stopped when the event was over. The momentum deflated.

If you look at the registration page on events you don’t get a true perspective as being in the scenario. Many walk-ons. If you talk to some they took a sub just for that one event. They leave and do the next scenario and repeat. A 1 month sub.

MotA is an exaggerated example, but it shows a distinct pattern.

On another forum discussing event times more than one out of maybe 10 said they knew a few who would return if FSO was earlier.

Events give us a subject to promote and exploit. IMO, they should be sold like MotA, a grand opening, “ya just can’t miss it”. Also IMO its hard to sell the MA. As AI called it, a sandbox war. You can get that in a lot of sims. Now you’re selling something that can be found elsewhere with modern graphics and payment model. Now you’re promoting something that can be clubbed with graphics, its a losing sale. When we sell scenarios now we’re selling something they can’t even compete with, that gives us leverage.

Since AW, because its true for many who play events, “the MA is just for practice”. And many just play the MA non-stop. But your boost is coming from a scenario era.

For AH, events are your selling point to compete with other sims that don’t have them.

If we want to keep our nose above the water line scenarios and events IS the selling point subject. And for each one you have a new sales point subject, not just MA repeats. Some come for the MA but it can get old fast and has a problem retaining them. Scenarios is where the deep immersion happens.

IMO, each event should be dropped and sold where ever we can like we did MotA and do not stop.

You bring players in for events they spend time in the MA until the next one.

Also why I think FSO hours need to change, to keep an event more accessible to retain the events crowd, keep that hook set. If we keep it fresh with events now you started getting the devoted through habit. Make that habit happen.

Our biggest audience is USA, FSO at 11p is not retaining that habit, its out of reach for many.

Point being, scenarios and events keep it fresh, its our best selling point.

You may not say no events, but if they stopped you prolly would not rally to revive them.
The MA simply doesn’t sell as well as events, they should run at good times and exploited, because today thats your bread and butter.

You may not like events but ya like the extra numbers they draw.

IMO, a standard event time keeps a habit in motion. If they can only make it to scenarios then we just get temporary subs. The momentum must be sustained being predictable to keep them in the game.

Even if you don’t do events, thats your best selling point. Make them your best friend.

Currently, its nit making enough revenue to support updates. Get numbers to 250-300 in the MA now it starts to become more possible.

I’m certainly not right about everything, that doesn’t make me wrong about everything. From the patterns I see, I’m confident I’m right about most on this subject. I study numbers and patterns to find a sales point, what retains them.

I have a vid of 14 yr old ceevee, flying his first scenario. “ I’ve never done this before, this is awesome!!”. It raised the hair on my arm reminding me of my first and the sensation of it. It was the most positive thing I heard from him. I want to know what gets him and that age in that seat to say the same.

I think we need to standardize times and sell each one like MotA, like a grand opening. If we want numbers there needs to be a compromise with MA. I’m just not hearing that compromise from the MA.

Numbers breed numbers.

<ducks from flying projectiles>

[The Fugitive]

Whole lot of “I” and “me”, sounds very lame.

Useless name calling

- Struggles to crack 100 but needs 100-120 for things to start getting good.

And on Saturday nights we do hit this 100-120 number getting the action. If an event pulls numbers away, we wont.

- “my squad is a horde squad” eeek

We have 8-10 on most night and can get 20 on a squad night. If we arent defending, we are attacking the team that has more of our bases than the other team. Should the other team start taking bases from ours we are happy to switch fronts and fight them. You remember squads right? Friends hanging out together, working toward a common goal, having fun...... kinda like FSO and some scenarios.
 

- people get drawn to AH for events. It’s the only thing that the game has a leg up on competitors.

Again, whats your proof? I didnt see any big jump in numbers for "Masters of the Air", "The Battle of Britain" Did we get any new players then? Doubt it, maybe a few old players returned for them, but I didnt see a jump in players to the MA to get up to speed for the scenarios.

- “I Like the constant action of the MA” we must have different definitions because the action on nights that don’t have events is dry..except when there are events on. Wonder why.

My guess is you are referring to Friday nights when a lot of the FSO guys come into the MA to "warm-up" before FSO. Sure the numbers look good then (it is what makes Friday in the MA populated, atleast on the east coast), but as soon as FSO starts, those players switch arenas and a large percentage of the players left just log because the numbers drop so bad.

Yes some events are popular. I have nothing against events. I would just hate to see it kill the population in the MA on one of the few nights of the week that still gets good numbers.

On the other hand, if events are so popular and what drives the games numbers, why are there so many events no longer in action? The events page lists a bunch of events that we use to have but are no longer running. Why dont they run now? 

No knight fight last night between 8 and 9..AGAIN

The fact that the fun varieties of AH involve only 2 sides should be a sign to some of you stuck with the 3 sided mentality..

Eagler

Start your own fight! It seems to me that the guys who only fly fighters are the ones who cant seem to find any action. And if you would think on it for a minute you KNOW it would turn into a huge lopsided gang fest if they switched it to a two sided game. You know it, you just dont want to admit it.