$120 a barrel

[CptTrips]

An idea cannot be killed by eliminating people. Their society has no concept of a free democracy. They don't understand the concept They tried a brief smattering of democracy in 1906 and again from 1951 to 1953 before a CIA-backed coup.

Well, also this is not and never was going to be like toppling a corrupt South American jungle junta.

These guys are nuts, but they have a whole difference sense of national identity and resilience.

These guys use to run the Persian Empire.  This is not some equatorial backwater just as happy to take our bribes as any other.

This is not going to be quick or easy in my opinion.

Didn't the NVA teach us we can win every battle but still lose the war?

[AKIron]

We let Iran terrorize the region for decades. Let's give this liberation and cleanup more than a couple of weeks before we start the hand wringing maybe.

[AKIron]

Just trying to help you guys out. You will wait and see whether you want to or not. Might as well hope for the best like me. And that would be the millions who marched in protest of their oppressive government do so again and aren't slaughtered this time but rather successful.

[CptTrips]

We let Iran terrorize the region for decades. Let's give this liberation and cleanup more than a couple of weeks before we start the hand wringing maybe.

OK, but how do we recognize victory?

If this ends up:
1.  We blew up their weapons (except for the ones currently mining the Straight)
2.  Same regime, different faces stays in power
3.  We make Putin rich selling his oil in the oil crisis we started


IF that's how it ends up, is that success?
Is freeing the Iranian people a hard requirement?

[Lazerr]

An idea cannot be killed by eliminating people. Their society has no concept of a free democracy. They don't understand the concept They tried a brief smattering of democracy in 1906 and again from 1951 to 1953 before a CIA-backed coup.

As to boots on the ground... yours? your children? Approximately 3 million American military personnel served in Vietnam during the conflict. Involvement peaked in April 1969 with over 543,000 personnel stationed there.... 58,000 perished, countless maimed for life. So maybe you could estimate an acceptable level of loss because YKW wanted 1: to make sure they never got nukes? 2: to remove a leader who killed his own people? 3: to drive up the value of his oil shares? 4: to get Jeff E. off the front page of the NYT? Far too many very intelligent analysts are scratching their heads why the only solution he would use was military.

Seems we learned little from 20 years in southeast Asia.

My father served in Vietnam..

He also backs our current "operation"

Sometimes the best choices aren't the easiest.

[Animl-AW]

My father served in Vietnam..

He also backs our current "operation"

Sometimes the best choices aren't the easiest.

Who and how they are implemented matters.
Their selling point is not working, in fact its horrific. Only about 27% support it.


Asking 73% to just fold hands snd wait against their own instincts is spinning wheels in mud.

[Eagler]

If we couldn't remove the backwards Taliban from Afghanistan after 20 years not sure how we think we can remove the Iranian leadership at all..regardless how long we try to...

Eagler

[CptTrips]

If we couldn't remove the backwards Taliban from Afghanistan after 20 years not sure how we think we can remove the Iranian leadership at all..regardless how long we try to...

Eagler

It's not clear it's a requirement.

I suspect as soon as he get's Putin's sanctions removed he will declare success and leave the mess hanging for you grandchildren to clean up.

[Lazerr]

If we couldn't remove the backwards Taliban from Afghanistan after 20 years not sure how we think we can remove the Iranian leadership at all..regardless how long we try to...

Eagler

Warfare and intelligence improves over time.. ill leave politics out of it.

Cuba is next for things for you guys to guys to rant about.
 
I'll probably bow out of this topic, and we can revisit it when gas is cheap, and global threats are largely minimal.

Thanks for keeping this calm and able to be discussed.

We dont all use the same eyes to view things.

[Oldman731]

My father served in Vietnam..

Thanks to him.  Others on these boards were there as well.  Tough time to serve the country.

Looks like the Marines may be headed to Kharg Island.  Khe Sanh could  be a good omen, Dien Bien Phu a bad one.

Far too early to tell how this will turn out.  At this point, some decades ago, it looked like Montgomery was going to lose El Alemein.

And I generally agree with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E-v5yDBR64


- oldman

[Busher]

Conflicting reports of numbers. Some news says 2500 and other say 5000 marines heading to Iran.

[Animl-AW]

I think it's bad to compare Nam to Iran, that's some scary stuff, Nam DID NOT go well, nor end well, Nor did Korea.

My family has been here since 1732, before it was USA, served every single war since,....except for my Marine nephew 3 tours of Iraq, none of those living agree with the way it's being done.

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wouldn't agree something needed to happen, but the way this is handled is vomit worthy. This just isn't the right team to be doing this. They are inept. They are fumbling and lying their butts off. So did Nixon and LBJ.

Iran will try to bring that 11 kilograms here, probably as dirty bombs, my cracked crystal ball says so.

How many reasons did we get for doing this,.. 6 in one week. This is way above their heads.

I will agree with Iron,...ya gotta have hope because there is no other real choice. We said the same about Nam and Korea. Like it or not,, Afgan and Iraq wasn't exactly a clean win either. As Trips sad, win the battle but lose the war. Like BinLaden, you have to look 10-20 yrs down the line.... these ME religious cults never forget and always want revenge, usually in terrorism. Our inner defense and security has been mash and gutted by this admin,.. we are weaker than we've been in many decades. As for BIO terrorism that would happen on the west coast. And guess what, our HHS has been turned into a horrific joke. FBI and HLS has been turned into deportation geeks instead of doing their normal job, tracking terrorism. More than 7,000 employees have been fired or left DOJ due to incompetence and illegal orders.  The head of DOD is a complete incompetent child, he resembles a teenager. If he were a real warrior he claims he would have joined the Marines, no NG hoping to brag about military yet never sent to war....the guy snapped and bawled when he got sent anyway. He's a child. We are setup for the perfect storm. And I'll refr back to Tris comments about Russia,... this has the scent of pre-planned.

So wishing for the best is all we really have.

This admin will be tried in International Law, it's an illegal war

[Animl-AW]

Conflicting reports of numbers. Some news says 2500 and other say 5000 marines heading to Iran.

That count is almost laughable. Ya need more like 100k+.

[Tumor]

That count is almost laughable. Ya need more like 100k+.

How many are needed, how many are going, and what they're going for, is information nobody here has the even the most remote access to.

I have no doubt the level of Information Warfare we are currently engaged in would send more than a few folks over the edge if they had a clue.  Without fail, every BS detail that is publicly released (by just about anyone) is snatched up and waved around to a) chase support for their personal cause and/or b) chase clout.

Just remember, they all think we're stupid.... so far, we do not disappoint. 

[rabbidrabbit]

How many are needed, how many are going, and what they're going for, is information nobody here has the even the most remote access to.

I have no doubt the level of Information Warfare we are currently engaged in would send more than a few folks over the edge if they had a clue.  Without fail, every BS detail that is publicly released (by just about anyone) is snatched up and waved around to a) chase support for their personal cause and/or b) chase clout.

Just remember, they all think we're stupid.... so far, we do not disappoint. 

Pretty much spot on.  People latch on to their teams narratives and go forth and fight on the internet instead of taking all information with a grain of salt and having informed conversations with other people doing the same thing.  Gone are the days of based and functional members of society acting in good faith.