Beating up on one country to near total destruction is bad ju ju

[Animl-AW]

Most players have enough perks to fly what they want. Perking planes is just a bandaid IMO

Dar may affect other issues, but not the core subject here. Full country hordes to gring one country into the abyss causing log offs.

Kinda grasping any straw but the subject.

Mention one change and a every pet peeve list takes over. The subject doesn’t get solved.

Last night started out balanced but ended in rinse and repeat. It never last 2-3 days, better yet 30.

Kinda just change the subject and go back to same mo.

This is why a setting of 15 limit is needed. It’s not going to happen.

[Randy1]

One point I would like to make is that as a guess, I enjoy the game say 8 out of every 10 days I play.  Maybe 9 out of 10 on a good run.  So the game is really pretty good discounting those days your country is pushed into a corner or battle a high eny.

[LilMak]

Most players have enough perks to fly what they want. Perking planes is just a bandaid IMO

Dar may affect other issues, but not the core subject here. Full country hordes to gring one country into the abyss causing log offs.

Kinda grasping any straw but the subject.

Mention one change and a every pet peeve list takes over. The subject doesn’t get solved.

Last night started out balanced but ended in rinse and repeat. It never last 2-3 days, better yet 30.

Kinda just change the subject and go back to same mo.

This is why a setting of 15 limit is needed. It’s not going to happen.

The reason AWACS is harped on by myself and others is the absolute advantage it gives to the team with localized numerical superiority. It gives the team with numbers within a grid or so a massive tactical advantage and practically begs pickers to pick. Not only that. It allows them to do so with while mitigating any sort of danger to themselves. Local radar towers used to be an advantage of the home team. AWACS basically nullified that defensive advantage. It doesn’t really matter if there are 5 or 15 players able to take off from a base of they’re pointed directly at 1 or 2 defenders when in anyone’s icon range. It also gives enemy bombers the advantage of seeing the fight in real time and adjusting routes to avoid red dots. Nevemind if you're in bombers trying to sneak in to slow the horde.

One of the primary reasons you’re seeing baby seal clubbing is because there are no advantages for defending. If I up from a base or even an adjacent base and fly towards the localized horde, every fighter in the sky instantly vectors towards me the second I’m in icon range with ANY of them. They don’t even need to look out of the cockpit. EVEN WORSE is I can fly over a vehicle I can’t even see and I’m already being painted on radar and hunted before I even know it.

Without AWACs I may be able to even some odds before they all dog pile on me. If it’s 5v1 and I may manage to kill one or two before they know exactly where I am. Even better, if I do kill one I have time to reset before I get absolutely clobbered. If I have time to reset, and I’m still alive, my teammates are more likely to see what’s developing and possibly come help. Hell, just surviving longer can encourage my teammates to help.

This is all in my own territory. Even if I try to come in at odd angles or disrupt their line of attack, they ALL know where I am the second I get in icon range with any of them. Say I’m attacking their town killing Lancs behind their lines. The KNOW exactly where I am and can vector to a perfect interception without even being told on frequency that I’m there.

Simply put. The more people you have in a localized area, the more radar coverage you have and the tactical advantage for that team multiplies. Therefore it is less and less likely defenders even want to TRY to defend.

So yeah. Radar is at the core of the subject.

[Eagler]

Better players want dar fixed...

New/ not so good players do not..

My guess is nothing will change as better players aren't enough $$$ to keep the game afloat...

Eagler

[Animl-AW]

The reason AWACS is harped on by myself and others is the absolute advantage it gives to the team with localized numerical superiority. It gives the team with numbers within a grid or so a massive tactical advantage and practically begs pickers to pick. Not only that. It allows them to do so with while mitigating any sort of danger to themselves. Local radar towers used to be an advantage of the home team. AWACS basically nullified that defensive advantage. It doesn’t really matter if there are 5 or 15 players able to take off from a base of they’re pointed directly at 1 or 2 defenders when in anyone’s icon range. It also gives enemy bombers the advantage of seeing the fight in real time and adjusting routes to avoid red dots. Nevemind if you're in bombers trying to sneak in to slow the horde.

One of the primary reasons you’re seeing baby seal clubbing is because there are no advantages for defending. If I up from a base or even an adjacent base and fly towards the localized horde, every fighter in the sky instantly vectors towards me the second I’m in icon range with ANY of them. They don’t even need to look out of the cockpit. EVEN WORSE is I can fly over a vehicle I can’t even see and I’m already being painted on radar and hunted before I even know it.

Without AWACs I may be able to even some odds before they all dog pile on me. If it’s 5v1 and I may manage to kill one or two before they know exactly where I am. Even better, if I do kill one I have time to reset before I get absolutely clobbered. If I have time to reset, and I’m still alive, my teammates are more likely to see what’s developing and possibly come help. Hell, just surviving longer can encourage my teammates to help.

This is all in my own territory. Even if I try to come in at odd angles or disrupt their line of attack, they ALL know where I am the second I get in icon range with any of them. Say I’m attacking their town killing Lancs behind their lines. The KNOW exactly where I am and can vector to a perfect interception without even being told on frequency that I’m there.

Simply put. The more people you have in a localized area, the more radar coverage you have and the tactical advantage for that team multiplies. Therefore it is less and less likely defenders even want to TRY to defend.

So yeah. Radar is at the core of the subject.

I see dar as a different but valid issue. Dar doesn’t influence 40 players to pile on 5, or 80 to pile on 15, Thats a group(s) conscious decision, planning.  Its just being a*oles. A single sqd op is one thing, 4 sqds is bs I’m not buying. I loath excuses for human behavior. <shrug>

I understand your dar complaint. I just have a hard time associating it with the subject.

[The Fugitive]

I see dar as a different but valid issue. Dar doesn’t influence 40 players to pile on 5, or 80 to pile on 15, Thats a group(s) conscious decision, planning.  Its just being a*oles. A single sqd op is one thing, 4 sqds is bs I’m not buying. I loath excuses for human behavior. <shrug>

I understand your dar complaint. I just have a hard time associating it with the subject.

It's not about players being a holes, it's about players having fun working together to grab bases. Unfortunately it not so fun for the other team when the numbers get so lopsided. Everyone enjoys joining missions when they are successful. It happens all the time. Nobody is ever thinking "hey let's screw over the knights tonight and crush them until they all log off", we'll maybe except for "finetime " and his vendetta against the bish 

I think most players want some competition,  but once the numbers get lopsided it's hard to turn/control the herd of cats. Don't think it is malicious.

[LilMak]

Better players want dar fixed...

New/ not so good players do not..

My guess is nothing will change as better players aren't enough $$$ to keep the game afloat...

Eagler

I would argue that skill has very little to do with it. There are a bunch of players who are very good who abuse the heck out of radar. Whether that’s for score or they’re simply flying with buddies. I don’t know for sure.

I will say this though. Pilots in game can be broadly broken down to two categories. Fighters and killers. “Fighters” do it for the joy of a good fight. “Killers” do it for the tally. One of these groups prefers every advantage they can get. The other not so much.

Management has made the decision to back the “Killers” in the name of making the arena appear to be more active. In doing so management has ruined some of the intangibles that made this game amazing (still good but not as amazing). I understand the reasoning but the idea didn't work. We’re not flush with new players and the radar setting has upset the balance favoring offense over defense. Even going so far as to run players off who otherwise may have stayed. Now we have a nearly constant state of two teams beating up on one and the “Fighters” are thinning out to the point that we find it increasingly difficult to find those good fights.

[Animl-AW]

It's not about players being a holes, it's about players having fun working together to grab bases. Unfortunately it not so fun for the other team when the numbers get so lopsided. Everyone enjoys joining missions when they are successful. It happens all the time. Nobody is ever thinking "hey let's screw over the knights tonight and crush them until they all log off", we'll maybe except for "finetime " and his vendetta against the bish 

I think most players want some competition,  but once the numbers get lopsided it's hard to turn/control the herd of cats. Don't think it is malicious.

Explain every single weekend nit slaughter. That takes coordination.
Why don’t rooks and bish REFUSE to fight each ither while slamming nits. When its the other way around I don’t go fir the beat down, I start a fight on another side. Roocks and bush do not.

What. Read is a half truth. The fun part is the truth part

Change it or lose it, excuses aren’t floating anymore with that track record. It’s in stone.

40 to 5, 80 to 15 is a*holes, period

So many logging it ok as long as your tribe has fun? It’s been clearly established its ruining numbers, excuses matter not

Thats why a limit is needed, the game is burned out on bs. Don’t change it, mid summer will be painful. I won’t waste a summer on that crap. If yall think I’m alone the angry log offs say different

It’s ok as ling as the GBers have fun? <smh>

No offense intended

[Animl-AW]

I can pull some serious dirty stuff, but its ok as long as its fun.

What goes around comes around

[icepac]

I always take off under a horde and often am the only friendly plane heading off to strafe some some troops.

[LilMak]

I see dar as a different but valid issue. Dar doesn’t influence 40 players to pile on 5, or 80 to pile on 15, Thats a group(s) conscious decision, planning.  Its just being a*oles. A single sqd op is one thing, 4 sqds is bs I’m not buying. I loath excuses for human behavior. <shrug>

I understand your dar complaint. I just have a hard time associating it with the subject.

You may not fully understand because you didn’t fly with me in the olden times when the best Jug was a D-40. Back then I made my AH living finding large dar bars that could contain 20+ aircraft and often go at them solo and come out the other side with scalps. I would attack from the sides like a predator separating my prey from the herd. Back then no one thought Jugs could fight. They were just bomb trucks. With no AWACS, my prey could fall without the entire team turning towards me. Back then I could potentially do damage or even get into a small scrum before the horde could react or even knew I was there.

Now everyone on the enemy team knows EXACTLY where I am before I could even close the 6k distance on my adversary. Let me say that one more time for the kids in the back! THE SECOND I’m in icon range and still 6k away from my fight. Before I can even get in gun range. Before I even know what kind of fight is going to develop. EVERY SWINGING JOHNSON on the enemy team knows I’m there and what my direction of travel is. Radar coverage is exponential based on the numbers of enemy in the air. If there are two enemy aircraft they have 100% more radar coverage than I do. The guys 1/2 a sector away know EXACTLY what’s happening in real time and I don’t even know if they’re coming my way yet. The horde can be strung out across two entire sectors and they have radar coverage the whole way while mine is only those  within my solo icon range.

Let me break it down simply again. Before proximity radar I had a better chance of fighting 20 enemy and surviving than I do now against 5 because of the fog of war. Attackers had to be more cautious because they didn’t have everything handed to them on a red and green map that negated even looking out the window.

If radar is going to continue to favor the side with numbers just turn it on so everyone sees everyone all the time. Stop piling advantage on the side with the most local players. Make it fair or take it away!

[Oldman731]

I will say this though. Pilots in game can be broadly broken down to two categories. Fighters and killers. “Fighters” do it for the joy of a good fight. “Killers” do it for the tally. One of these groups prefers every advantage they can get. The other not so much.

Nice analysis!  I agree.

Takes both types, though.

- oldman

[Animl-AW]

You may not fully understand because you didn’t fly with me in the olden times when the best Jug was a D-40. Back then I made my AH living finding large dar bars that could contain 20+ aircraft and often go at them solo and come out the other side with scalps. I would attack from the sides like a predator separating my prey from the herd. Back then no one thought Jugs could fight. They were just bomb trucks. With no AWACS, my prey could fall without the entire team turning towards me. Back then I could potentially do damage or even get into a small scrum before the horde could react or even knew I was there.

Now everyone on the enemy team knows EXACTLY where I am before I could even close the 6k distance on my adversary. Let me say that one more time for the kids in the back! THE SECOND I’m in icon range and still 6k away from my fight. Before I can even get in gun range. Before I even know what kind of fight is going to develop. EVERY SWINGING JOHNSON on the enemy team knows I’m there and what my direction of travel is. Radar coverage is exponential based on the numbers of enemy in the air. If there are two enemy aircraft they have 100% more radar coverage than I do. The guys 1/2 a sector away know EXACTLY what’s happening in real time and I don’t even know if they’re coming my way yet. The horde can be strung out across two entire sectors and they have radar coverage the whole way while mine is only those  within my solo icon range.

Let me break it down simply again. Before proximity radar I had a better chance of fighting 20 enemy and surviving than I do now against 5 because of the fog of war. Attackers had to be more cautious because they didn’t have everything handed to them on a red and green map that negated even looking out the window.

If radar is going to continue to favor the side with numbers just turn it on so everyone sees everyone all the time. Stop piling advantage on the side with the most local players. Make it fair or take it away!

Well, just understand I agree with you on dar.

I just don’t correlate it with beat downs or angry log offs.

I like the dar we often use in scenarios.

Here’s my thing,…if the power of suggestion doesn’t work, likely nothing will.

I stand behind the 15 limit. When players drive out other players because its fun, a clamp down is needed, yesterday. It’s destructive in the wrong direction, period.

If someone is mad at my suggestion, I’m more mad when players are pushed out.

We don’t need any sabotaging other countries or stunts, this setting will put a soft brake on it. The alternative hard brake is arena reset. Enough.

[LilMak]

Well, just understand I agree with you on dar.

I just don’t correlate it with beat downs or angry log offs.

I like the dar we often use in scenarios.

Here’s my thing,…if the power of suggestion doesn’t work, likely nothing will.

I stand behind the 15 limit. When players drive out other players because its fun, a clamp down is needed, yesterday. It’s destructive in the wrong direction, period.

If someone is mad at my suggestion, I’m more mad when players are pushed out.

We don’t need any sabotaging other countries or stunts, this setting will put a soft brake on it. The alternative hard brake is arena reset. Enough.

I remember AW and its limits and I understand where you’re coming from. Here’s the thing. What you’re asking would take programming code and testing. Radar is an arena setting and can be updated between tours. While your proposal might have unintended consequences, we already know proximity radar’s effect on the arena and its population.

If you look at who is advocating for radar revision, it’s almost universally the pilots who are “Fighters”. Those of us who enjoy the fights or remember the component of SA that could change outcomes. We’re not here for the score or the accolades and are more apt to put up a defense. The current radar settings have taken time away from our ability to enjoy fights even for a few moments. We can’t even start individual engagements before radar has us being hunted by overwhelming numbers. The time is the critical factor. I might gain an extra 30 seconds to a minute for each engagement which allows for several things to happen. First, I may be able to have a great fight before I get jumped. Second, I may be able to work an enemy down off their perch before all the pickers show up. Third, if I last longer or manage to do some damage, my teammates might be able to help mount a defense while I hold the line whereas if I get killed immediately they may not help at all.

Clearly nothing is going to stop the horde. We all understand that to some degree because it usually takes quite a bit of coordination to take a base. BUT we shouldn’t be making it exponentially easier for the team with numbers while they do it. Anyone who says the radar settings aren’t making defense harder and attacking easier just have their head in the sand. Radar settings aren’t going to stop 2v1 either. But guys like me, violator, eagler, and a bunch of others will have a ton more fun continuing to provide targets with an increased chance of having better fights while we do. We’re gluttons for punishment but there are limits. What you’re witnessing in the MA when two teams bang on one and the outnumbered teams logs off in frustration is fed by the radar settings. I’ll fly into a horde a hundred times in a row if I know I can eke out some fun fights. Proximity radar has ruined my ability to do so. So, after decades of doing just that, I’m finding myself frustrated and prone to log myself which is something that I never would do in the past. The time is what is missing. Time to have a good fight before being overwhelmed. 30 seconds per engagement adds up over an evening.

[JimmyD3]

Different ideas/suggestions for the most part are good for the game. However our discussions here on the forum mean little if Hitech is not involved. I have brought up the AWACS dar issue several times to him and tried to articulate the concerns in its current configuration. So far he has not expressed any support in changing it.

I would suggest several players try to call  him and discuss it with him, if possible.