Game called due to lack of interest

[AKIron]

I have fond memories of jumping into Air Warrior around Jan of '90 on my Amiga 2000. Had read about it before getting back to the US from a 5 year tour at Kadena. Didn't know how to turn tracers on or who to shoot at. I probably shot at everyone, and hit no one.

[CptTrips]

I probably shot at everyone, and hit no one.

While stuck in an unrecoverable spin?  That's the Death Blossom Defense!

[ZE]

I still think a two tiered model will bring some life back. The steam release had potential but the people there were sold a bag of snake oil when AH was “free” to play because it required a subscription to get into anything that could sell them on the magic of the game (MA and Events). The learning curve is too steep for a two week trial. The problem is people are not going to pay for something that they can’t even get semi-proficient at. It’s not that they lack the fortitude to do so. If you look at other games where it is free to play, the entry is free but adding value after the start generates revenue. Looking at games like COD, you can play and grind to to get competitive or you can buy battle passes and such to get guns and skins off the jump. I’m not proposing that exact model but something similar to get players hooked.

It should go something like this…

Option one: Free to play with access to the MA and events.

A limited plane/GV set that can achieve some success in the MA. You could set all available equipment prior to a certain date (pre 1943?) or simply hand pick some to be available.

100 perks that allow players to use on later war equipment (current perk models excluded) with a perk cost of 20 regardless of model. These perks would reset every month. This would allow free players to experience late war rides in a very limited capacity.

Skins downloadable but limited to default only. (Maybe available for purchase at a buck a piece?)

Possible purchase of perks (100 for $5) basically a buck per plane.

Option two: Would be the same model we already have.



This would get the hooks into players and let them learn at their own pace without the absolute need to shell out any funds. It also gives value to the $15 model as an upgrade. I would lobby hard for the removal of AWACS. This would simultaneously help the new additions sneak a kill in every now and then while limiting the clubbing they’re going to take while learning. AH is sneaky in its ability to give dopamine to players. It’s kinda like golf where you hit the one good shot in an hundred and you’re hooked.

+1

[LilMak]

I agree with a lot of what you said.

It's just not going to happen.  If it can't be 100% implemented by the players, it won't happen.

I'm not trying to be a drag, but I'd advise you try and think of a solution you can control.  Otherwise you will just be disappointed and waste effort in directions that will not bear fruit.

You’re probably right. However, the evidence appears to be this game has a niche that could still be wrung out for some more revenue.

Still. There are some things that can be done that require no code. AWACS, for example, has had detrimental effects on game play and is a fifteen minute job to rectify requiring zero code. Simply changing that might result in a bump to subscribers as it’s well documented on these boards that several quit citing that as the final straw.

There was a litany of us that said bringing YKW back was a horrible idea. That eventually got resolved (again). So there is hope.

[Spikes]

I still think a two tiered model will bring some life back. The steam release had potential but the people there were sold a bag of snake oil when AH was “free” to play because it required a subscription to get into anything that could sell them on the magic of the game (MA and Events). The learning curve is too steep for a two week trial. The problem is people are not going to pay for something that they can’t even get semi-proficient at. It’s not that they lack the fortitude to do so. If you look at other games where it is free to play, the entry is free but adding value after the start generates revenue. Looking at games like COD, you can play and grind to to get competitive or you can buy battle passes and such to get guns and skins off the jump. I’m not proposing that exact model but something similar to get players hooked.

It should go something like this…

Option one: Free to play with access to the MA and events.

A limited plane/GV set that can achieve some success in the MA. You could set all available equipment prior to a certain date (pre 1943?) or simply hand pick some to be available.

100 perks that allow players to use on later war equipment (current perk models excluded) with a perk cost of 20 regardless of model. These perks would reset every month. This would allow free players to experience late war rides in a very limited capacity.

Skins downloadable but limited to default only. (Maybe available for purchase at a buck a piece?)

Possible purchase of perks (100 for $5) basically a buck per plane.

Option two: Would be the same model we already have.



This would get the hooks into players and let them learn at their own pace without the absolute need to shell out any funds. It also gives value to the $15 model as an upgrade. I would lobby hard for the removal of AWACS. This would simultaneously help the new additions sneak a kill in every now and then while limiting the clubbing they’re going to take while learning. AH is sneaky in its ability to give dopamine to players. It’s kinda like golf where you hit the one good shot in an hundred and you’re hooked.

There's something in another game I like called Smite where they do this: they have base characters (Gods) that are always free (5 I think), then a weekly rotation (another 5) that you can play. Smite is a bit different in that it's completely F2P if you want, but the premise would work here considering the vast amount of options.

So for example could have a base set of stuff that's always free like (spitballing here) Spit V, 109F, He111, F4F, 251, T34/76 then have some sort of rotation of random planes. One week it might be a P-51B and F4U-1D, the next Spit 9 and B-17 and Panzer IV. Of course, no idea how much that would take to code.

When I spoke to HT last he was not opposed to the idea of making some stuff free in the MA, or possibly having the free tier require perks for most things.

[CptTrips]

You’re probably right. However, the evidence appears to be this game has a niche that could still be wrung out for some more revenue.

It does.  Look around you.  This is the demographic.

The market for this sim is all the old guys who started in AW, WB, FA.

Without unfeasible changes I don't believe you will ever attract any meaningful NEW inflow.

You shot would be to get the emails of former players who are not still here and make anyone that has been gone longer than a year a special deal to come back for The Last Hurrah! (first 6 months back free?)
But even that I've not seen the slightest finger lifted.

The other things you mentioned that you can control are where you would get traction.

[DmonSlyr]

There's something in another game I like called Smite where they do this: they have base characters (Gods) that are always free (5 I think), then a weekly rotation (another 5) that you can play. Smite is a bit different in that it's completely F2P if you want, but the premise would work here considering the vast amount of options.

So for example could have a base set of stuff that's always free like (spitballing here) Spit V, 109F, He111, F4F, 251, T34/76 then have some sort of rotation of random planes. One week it might be a P-51B and F4U-1D, the next Spit 9 and B-17 and Panzer IV. Of course, no idea how much that would take to code.

When I spoke to HT last he was not opposed to the idea of making some stuff free in the MA, or possibly having the free tier require perks for most things.

I would limit to only early war planes and Jabo bombers like TBM or SBD. You don't want highly skilled vets returning for free flying in planes that can dominate. I dont care how good someone is, they arent gonna dominate in a early war planes but it would most likely convince them to subscribe just to try a late war plane. It would also teach these free players how to learn defense ACM rather than just running away in an easy mode BnZer like a 190D.

[CptTrips]

When I spoke to HT last he was not opposed to the idea of making some stuff free in the MA, or possibly having the free tier require perks for most things.

Well that is a significant improvement.

My unsolicited advise would be to bump a major ver or RE-RELEASE "Aces High Platinum Edition" on Steam and if possible remove the old one and it's crushing reviews.

Those reviews are like a 100kts headwind.  The first thing I do with a game I am looking at is ignore the company propaganda and go strait to see what the reviews are.

[The Fugitive]

Glad someone thinks so. I’m sure it would be a considerable amount of work but I’m willing to bet real money that Dale could reach out to some in the community to help with the code to put it in place. Maybe re-release on steam and invite some old players back?

At this point, It could be a waste of time or a boon to generate significant revenue for some time. I don’t see how some work (months?) could hurt anything. One last hurrah to keep things going for a few more years?

Thats where I see the "hope" for this game. Greebo does the skin approval process now, Kenai does the maps. Hitech is delegating some of these things to players. I hope he will continue and let others "help" with the game be it creating sound paks, new animations (explosions and such), AI missions and so on. Maybe even a marketing group to push more ads and things on social media. There are people willing to put in the time for free to help out the game.

Well that is a significant improvement.

My unsolicited advise would be to bump a major ver or RE-RELEASE "Aces High Platinum Edition" on Steam and if possible remove the old one and it's crushing reviews.

Those reviews are like a 100kts headwind.  The first thing I do with a game I am looking at is ignore the company propaganda and go strait to see what the players reviews are.

I agree, a few changes in game like getting rid of AWACS, the free to play tier added and the rebranding to steam would bring in a bunch of new blood. It would be up to us to help retain that new blood.

[CptTrips]

I agree, a few changes in game like getting rid of AWACS, the free to play tier added and the rebranding to steam would bring in a bunch of new blood. It would be up to us to help retain that new blood.

I don't know how it would pan out, but if you could get a new Steam listing with a new versions that really does support FTP, if you could get a new listing decoupled from those old review listings  (Why I thought might require a name change not just a ver number")...

You might could at least get another 90k bites at the apple like you did last time.  Just be better prepared to make the best of that chance this time.

[LilMak]

There's something in another game I like called Smite where they do this: they have base characters (Gods) that are always free (5 I think), then a weekly rotation (another 5) that you can play. Smite is a bit different in that it's completely F2P if you want, but the premise would work here considering the vast amount of options.

So for example could have a base set of stuff that's always free like (spitballing here) Spit V, 109F, He111, F4F, 251, T34/76 then have some sort of rotation of random planes. One week it might be a P-51B and F4U-1D, the next Spit 9 and B-17 and Panzer IV. Of course, no idea how much that would take to code.

When I spoke to HT last he was not opposed to the idea of making some stuff free in the MA, or possibly having the free tier require perks for most things.

I like the idea but, believe it or not, I actually put some thought into what I proposed into the amount of administration it would take. While a rotating setup might be interesting, I think anything that’s done should take as little effort on his part once implemented. Basically set it and forget it. The resetting perks allows them to fly whatever they want (minus current perked rides) but severely limits it to encourage generation of revenue through perk purchases or $15 subs.

Meanwhile, a free model might bring players back that really miss events. If there’s a bump there it might encourage people to keep their subs going that might be considering dropping it at the moment.

I think, at the very least, a limited free model might keep the game going long enough that it generates current revenue for HT for years to come.

[Spikes]

I like the idea but, believe it or not, I actually put some thought into what I proposed into the amount of administration it would take. While a rotating setup might be interesting, I think anything that’s done should take as little effort on his part once implemented. Basically set it and forget it. The resetting perks allows them to fly whatever they want (minus current perked rides) but severely limits it to encourage generation of revenue through perk purchases or $15 subs.

In theory it could be set and forget, just randomize 5 aircraft each week or month. Granted, you might end up getting 5 Spitfires or 5 GVs, though I assume that could be hard-coded too (1 GV 2 fighters, 2 bombers per rotation for example). I'm not saying it's the best method by any means, just an interesting way of doing it is all.

As for the perk thing, I am not sure how much should be divulged but the thought process was to have everything multiplied on a free account. So the base perk value of a 262 is 250 I believe - on a free account that would be much higher, say 2250, P-51 say 100, Spit 9 say 50. Those are arbitrary numbers and would likely need to be determined by some sort of formula. The issue is deciding which aircraft should be 0. I don't think many people would be generating much in a Spit 1 or Hurri 1, especially a newer player.

[popeye]

HiTech has stated that few new players stay longer than 15 minutes.  I've witnessed the same.  So, they have ALL planes and GVs available for FREE (for 2 weeks) and very few stay long enough to get off the runway.  Gotta solve that before any new F2P tiers or whatever will make much difference for attracting new players.

The free stuff might bring back some old players, but they probably aren't going to upgrade to see if they can be competitive -- they already know what it's about.  Although, having more players flying for free would improve the game dynamics, it wouldn't improve the bottom line.

[CptTrips]

HiTech has stated that few new players stay longer than 15 minutes.  I've witnessed the same.  So, they have ALL planes and GVs available for FREE (for 2 weeks) and very few stay long enough to get off the runway.  Gotta solve that before any new F2P tiers or whatever will make much difference for attracting new players.

Is it possible that they just closed the dialog telling them there really isn’t F2P except for some empty side arenas.

Is it possible they made the decision right then and there this was a no-deal for them?

Is it possible they don’t see the point of mapping their controls or learning the ropes for two weeks when they just refuse to pay a subscription?

Is it possible that in 15 min the UI\UX and in-games graphics they see confirms their suspicion so exit-uninstall?

Is it possible they aren’t staying longer than 15 min because they have already decided before reaching the tower that they aren't paying $15\mo for any game?

[hazmatt]

A newb-or even a guy like me returning after decades is DOA.

Superior graphics and all but it's hard to fathom why they can't incorporate communication channels and whatnot without reliance on shoddy 3rd party crap.

I know plenty are using Discord as a crutch but it ain't the same.

I'll keep trying other sims but I'll spend most of my time getting annihilated here as I can chat about it in real time with a community of others who are there participating at the same time.

Yup, pretty "arcade" in here but a big learning curve nonetheless while still having communal and communicative advantages that are somehow missed in the other sims out there.

Good points. I agree that a new player really doesn't have much of a chance here. I have noticed that the other sims at least have a mix of skill sets. In the game I'm currently playing have seen more than once a P51 try to turn fight my A6M. The planes are dynamically rated for matches based on the number of kills players get in them and because of this the A6M2 is matched with late model P51s. This match up should never happen if P51s were flown properly.

I think the community and the communication are the biggest strengths of the game, however, I think that the stuff like the 2 countries with larger numbers ganging the smaller country and vets flying around in Tempests and such make it a bit of a challenge for new players who are used to the free to play, pay to win models of many of the other sims. Most of them give you an option to buy a better aircraft in some form.

I think the built in comms is a big thing. War Thunder has hot keys were you can call for help and stuff but it's kinda clunky because you have o press a combination of 2 or 3 keys in a specific order. They check 6 key is a big improvident over that. I know that WW2 online has implemented a comms system but I haven't tried it so I don't know if it's any good and discord definitely not a replacement for good comms.