Who is having the numbers - subjective survey

[Lusche]

Well, I've been playing a bit lately, and until yesterday I was using Autoswitch, so I was always fighting for the country with the fewest players.

I kept track of it a little, so I can tell you which side was outnumbered the most often:




Interestingly, Autoswitch doesn't really work very well anymore. As the numbers are way too low to allow for battles on every front, I often found myself kicked from the only battle on the map to a chesspiece without any activity at all on all of it's fronts. And not only the country ganged upon is not only not the one with the fewest players, but at low numbers times a country can have most players in arena but least number of active ones at the same time.

One example: I enter the arena, getting put on Knight side. But not a single player on any side is "inflight" at all. So I roll my tank to a Bish town and lazily keep shooting at buildings. After 15 minutes, suddenly some more Knights show up and join me in the perceived "capture attempt". Still no Bish reaction, and as I tower after having used up my HE rounds, I get autoswitched to - Rooks.
Over the next hour or so, I see 4 Knights capturing Bish base after base, against no resistance at all, while all I can do is watching the map from Rookland. I was even doing a 9k bombing run against Knight targets, but they just ignored me (smart from a strategic point of view).
I could have disengaged Autoswitch to manually jump to Bishops, but I would have stuck there for the next 6 hours, while after one hour the Bish would wake up and quickly totally outnumber both other sides combined.

While this is a more extreme example, similar was happening quite often even during US prime time. Two sides locked in battle, while the third either milkruns undefended bases or is not doing anything at all, with no red darbars to be seen anywhere.

I think it would be sensible to drastically reduce the time limit for switching sides again.

[CptTrips]

Interestingly, Autoswitch doesn't really work very well anymore. As the numbers are way too low to allow for battles on every front, I often found myself kicked from the only battle on the map to a chesspiece without any activity at all on all of it's fronts.

Which wouldn't have happened with two-sides because there would be one shared frontline.

Yes, I know, it will never happen.

[Shane]

Interestingly, Autoswitch doesn't really work very well anymore. As the numbers are way too low to allow for battles on every front, I often found myself kicked from the only battle on the map to a chesspiece without any activity at all on all of it's fronts. And not only the country ganged upon is not only not the one with the fewest players, but at low numbers times a country can have most players in arena but least number of active ones at the same time.

Two sides locked in battle, while the third either milkruns undefended bases or is not doing anything at all, with no red darbars to be seen anywhere.

I think it would be sensible to drastically reduce the time limit for switching sides again.

This has been remarked on repeatedly the past few years; I'll agree the switch timer should be reduced to 1 hour (maybe 2) even tho' I don't jump sides frequently.

It is much harder to get the former balance of all fronts having action (reduced numbers, crowd/action following, etc) so that feast or famine can be quite "meh."  This is why we see some calling for two sides instead of three, but that's not going to resolve what is fundamentally players' gameplay decisions.

<edit:  as i was writing this, guess what was suggested, two sides!  >

[icepac]

Did the roster look like this?

Are these Bishop players on knight towersitting to affect eny so the rest of the bish can fly late war planes?

[DmonSlyr]

Well, I've been playing a bit lately, and until yesterday I was using Autoswitch, so I was always fighting for the country with the fewest players.

I kept track of it a little, so I can tell you which side was outnumbered the most often:

(Image removed from quote.)


Interestingly, Autoswitch doesn't really work very well anymore. As the numbers are way too low to allow for battles on every front, I often found myself kicked from the only battle on the map to a chesspiece without any activity at all on all of it's fronts. And not only the country ganged upon is not only not the one with the fewest players, but at low numbers times a country can have most players in arena but least number of active ones at the same time.

One example: I enter the arena, getting put on Knight side. But not a single player on any side is "inflight" at all. So I roll my tank to a Bish town and lazily keep shooting at buildings. After 15 minutes, suddenly some more Knights show up and join me in the perceived "capture attempt". Still no Bish reaction, and as I tower after having used up my HE rounds, I get autoswitched to - Rooks.
Over the next hour or so, I see 4 Knights capturing Bish base after base, against no resistance at all, while all I can do is watching the map from Rookland. I was even doing a 9k bombing run against Knight targets, but they just ignored me (smart from a strategic point of view).
I could have disengaged Autoswitch to manually jump to Bishops, but I would have stuck there for the next 6 hours, while after one hour the Bish would wake up and quickly totally outnumber both other sides combined.

While this is a more extreme example, similar was happening quite often even during US prime time. Two sides locked in battle, while the third either milkruns undefended bases or is not doing anything at all, with no red darbars to be seen anywhere.

I think it would be sensible to drastically reduce the time limit for switching sides again.

Thanks for this Lusche. I agree 100%. I was hoping there would be a time change adjustment soon after the last thread with Kenaii.

IMO, with low #s anything can be manipulated. I cant figure out the defense problem/phenomenon for the life of me.

IMO, it all comes down to maps. The maps that are too large cause these imbalances the most during low #s, and you are stuck because you cannot go fight the battle on the other side of the map, nore can you tell who is winning the battle to make an accurate switch assessment to help the side that's needed. Too many fields adds confusion and makes maps stay for 2 days longer than needed.

Smaller maps equals bigger battles in smaller areas where everyone knows where the fights and paths are, and everyone can join a battle on the map if their side has no action.

[oTRALFZo]

Did the roster look like this?

Are these Bishop players on knight towersitting to affect eny so the rest of the bish can fly late war planes?

(Image removed from quote.)

[Eagler]

Yep auto switch was taking me out of the fight..

I start on knights now and usually find enough action for my hour of ma but will switch if they are just attacking an empty base..

Eagler

[Animl-AW]

When a squad(s) throws 1.5-2 bars at with 5 defenders because they are being gang bang, whats the use in defending it? They just log.
That could have been 2-3 other battles.

This mentality to waist 2-3 bars on almost no defenders in a complete wast to the game play.

I’ve many times have had 6-8 on my 6 trying to kill me. <blank stare> lets talk about lameness.

It’s a bad joke and destructive, players just log off.

How sbout large squads don’t do mass milk runs. I’ll never understand the fun in 30 players shooting empty beer cans. I do not

Our sqd will split up and work 2-3 bases over putting 2-3 bars on a milk run

But wait, there’s more,… the denials are coming.
However, I stand with throwing 2-3 bars at next to no one is ridiculous. They put everything int one single battle. But its nit a battle at all. Its just shooting stuff.

Auto side switched is highly flawed during gang bangs. If the victim side has higher numbers than each of the gang bang sude they lise players to auto switch and get slapped with eny in top of being ganged. It’s always been bad. We just notice it more because of lower numbers than 8-10 yrs ago at its peak.

[Animl-AW]

On a numbers side note;

Based on primetime number patterns..,,

FSO nights used to bring 130 in game. That is a winter number as well.
This summer  and since event time change, it now brings 140-150 logged in game.

I don’t recall which Friday, one of the last 2 I think,…. 70 (used to be 50-60) in FSO, 82 in MA= 152

TAKE NOTE: These are mid- summer numbers. The according to past patterns, the numbers should be lower, not higher.

If we get this nudge in summer, maybe we get a winter spike putting us at an average if 120-140 in the MA. <crossed fingers>

The last two scenarios seemed to fill faster, than some prior.

BACK TO SUBJECT
Critical mass, when the game starts improving is 110-120.
Anything below that game play descends, usually.

So to study game-play below CM or higher than CM  are vastly different results, on average. The mire above CM the more the game plays as designed, a better game.

If I did a study always below CM it would be depressing
If done above CM it’s encouraging.

That’s why no settings should changed based on below CM game-play. >IMO<

IMO, Louche’s charts combine both. I love when claim is supported with numbers.

[caldera]

Did the roster look like this?

Are these Bishop players on knight towersitting to affect eny so the rest of the bish can fly late war planes?

(Image removed from quote.)

That's not a good look. 

How would you fix that, though?  Eliminate country switching? 
People that may (or may not) do shady stuff to capture cartoon bases will find workarounds, regardless.

[The Fugitive]

That's not a good look. 

How would you fix that, though?  Eliminate country switching? 
People that may (or may not) do shady stuff to capture cartoon bases will find workarounds, regardless.

True, but luckily there isn't that many that feel the need to.play like that. I had suggested that a timer be added to thos3 sitting in the tower and when the time was.up they are removed from the eny  calculation. Hitech  liked the idea, but I guess he hasn't gotten around to fixing it. I think he could come up with a way for the auto switch to only switch to a lower number side that has fighting going on.

I know  the side switch time is a touchy subject but I'm sure it could be set up to work with population numbers. Low numbers it has a short switch time, and as the numbers increase so do the switch time limits.

I would think if hitech could spend time in the arena he could come up with a few ways.to tweak the game to make the fronts work better with the smaller numbers.

[Mayhem]

Five Stages of Grief

Denial   The initial reaction where individuals may refuse to accept the reality of the loss. They may feel numb or believe the event is mistaken.

Anger   Feelings of frustration and helplessness can lead to anger, which may be directed at oneself, others, or even the deceased.

Bargaining   In this stage, individuals may attempt to negotiate or make deals to reverse the loss, often reflecting on "what if" scenarios.

Depression   This stage involves deep sadness and a sense of hopelessness as the individual begins to understand the extent of the loss.

Acceptance   Acceptance does not mean the pain is gone, but rather that individuals learn to live with the loss and find a way to move forward.

I think we are stuck in the Bargaining stage.

[Busher]

 players just log off.

Seems to work. Game suggests fun - not frustration.

[-gg-]

like I've been saying, it's ridiculous to have ENY when the numbers are so low. It's WAY too easy to manipulate - like one guy can log off for a second while his squad grabs some ENY affected planes, or a couple guys sit in the tower on the other side. Two or three people should never be able to manipulate the ENY. ]

Get rid of ENY unless numbers are in the 200s
Make it so players in the tower have ZERO affect on ENY

I don't like ENY period, but it's just retarded to have this BS going on when the numbers are so low.

I've never worried about being outnumbered. I don't care. I DO care when I'm outnumbered AND I have to fly a crap plane while the gang-bangers are in LA7s and Ponies - and that happens frequently because the ENY does not work with low numbers. I'll log off every time when the ENY kicks in hard AND we're outnumbered in the actual fight that's on the map.



 

[haggerty]

There definitely needs to be more active ENY calculation based on people in flight, not tower.  JOKERs shouldn't be allowed to switch to autoswitch when they are done for the day and tower sit on another team to help bish.  AFK timers would help prevent this, but tower sitting should also not impact ENY.  I personally have no issues with ENY since I pretty much only fly 30+ ENY planes, but it seems like such a big problem for much of the player base it should be addressed.  Currently there is no mechanism or punishment for people sitting in flight (cybro) either so more would just do that if tower sitters are taken out of the equation.