Old conveyor argument

[hitech]

I was organizing old photos and came across this.

[AKIron]

lol 

With a bunch of people making different arguments it's practically impossible to get everyone to agree on the nature of the question. Does the belt match the speed at which the wheel spins or the plane?

[hitech]

lol 

With a bunch of people making different arguments it's practically impossible to get everyone to agree on the nature of the question. Does the belt match the speed at which the wheel spins or the plane?

For the plane to not take off the belt has to constantly accelerate at the rate of the diagram I made. Basicly your using the wheel gaining momentum as it spins to hold it back.

HiTech

[AKIron]

For the plane to not take off the belt has to constantly accelerate at the rate of the diagram I made. Basicly your using the wheel gaining momentum as it spins to hold it back.

HiTech

I understood. I participated in the argument long ago. Many could not understand the difference between the belt matching the plane's forward speed and the spinning speed of the wheel. Some of those who conceded the wheel speed argument could not understand angular momentum. There were really 3 or 4 different arguments interwoven.

If the belt matches the forward speed of the plane then it takes off easily. If the belt matches the spin speed of the wheel and can accelerate sufficiently (per your diagram) and infinitely then the plane can never move forward fast enough to take off.

[AKIron]

Eskimo made a video showing how rearward force is applied to a wheel sitting on a belt sander. Using an elastic band as an axis for the wheel it moved backwards as the belt sander accelerated to speed. Once the sander was up to speed the wheel moved forward until the tension in the elastic axis was reduced. Speed 2 on the sander and the wheel moved rearward again until the belt had accelerated to speed 2. I think many understood but just enjoyed being contentious.

[CptTrips]

I assume you have consulted the Oracle?
https://chatgpt.com/share/6abd6e4a-8980-83e9-93b1-7370dec78970

Well, the Myth Busters dudes would just build one and try it.   

[AKIron]

I assume you have consulted the Oracle?
https://chatgpt.com/share/6abd6e4a-8980-83e9-93b1-7370dec78970

Well, the Myth Busters dudes would just build one and try it.   

Yeah, their belt matched the plane's speed, not the wheel's. Of course it was going to take off. There was at least a 60 mph difference between the belt speed and the speed of the wheel.

[Randy1]

Thrust to start a plane rolling has little to do with your diagram outside of rolling restrictive forces induced by the tire under that weight. 

Pushing a plane is one thing.  Achieving lift conditions is a another.

[horble]

having flashbacks to this argument spilling over into every single thread on the WWII Online Off-topic subforum

[AKIron]

In the first case, a plane on a belt that matches only the planes forward speed though the air, seems obvious to most that yes, the plane can takeoff. Some think the plane can't move forward with a belt going backwards at the same speed and, well, they're just wrong.

The belt matching the rotational speed of the wheels introduces a whole 'nother question and must be analyzed and particulars determined before an answer can be decided.

[AKKuya]

 

How does Gilligan's bamboo bicycle apply? I really wat the castaways to leave the island by air.

[Dadtallica]

How about a sea plane going up a waterfall? 

[AKIron]

How does Gilligan's bamboo bicycle apply? I really wat the castaways to leave the island by air.

Which time?

[AKIron]

What about a plane going backwards? Can it takeoff?

[CptTrips]

What about a plane going backwards? Can it takeoff?

African or European?