Idea to alternative to replace AWACS radar

[Randy1]

.AH has three basic parts of the game.  Engagement with the enemy, disrupt the country's ability to survive, capture bases.  If your country does all of this well, you win the map.

Each of us place these three parts to a different priority level in our game play.  Any changes to the game has to support all three basic parts to avoid losing players.   AH has survived these many years so something has to bee right.


Save, your idea is interesting for sure.   It is on the same path as destroying your own assets like town buildings if you bomb GVs.

[LilMak]

AWACS caused an exodus because it ruined air combat for many players. They weren’t asked. All of a sudden the most gamey thing that HT ever introduced just showed up. No test. No revisit. No feedback. Just a big middle finger to our intelligence. Since then it’s been a boon for the most lame parts of the air game and trashed the balance of the MA. Now players that have been here for eons are coming here and saying they can’t find a fight without it?!? Forgive me if I just think you’re lazy and maybe you should just go to war thunder or fire up Atari’s river raid.

At the very GD minimum…

A 30 TON TANK SHOULD NOT PAINT MY PLANE ON RADAR WHEN I CAN’T EVEN SEE THEM FROM 50ft AGL!!!

[JimmyD3]

AWACS caused an exodus because it ruined air combat for many players. They weren’t asked. All of a sudden the most gamey thing that HT ever introduced just showed up. No test. No revisit. No feedback. Just a big middle finger to our intelligence. Since then it’s been a boon for the most lame parts of the air game and trashed the balance of the MA. Now players that have been here for eons are coming here and saying they can’t find a fight without it?!? Forgive me if I just think you’re lazy and maybe you should just go to war thunder or fire up Atari’s river raid.

At the very GD minimum…

A 30 TON TANK SHOULD NOT PAINT MY PLANE ON RADAR WHEN I CAN’T EVEN SEE THEM FROM 50ft AGL!!!

50 fT. AGL? Really? How about 1800 ft. AGL?

[Oldman731]

Now players that have been here for eons are coming here and saying they can’t find a fight without it?!? Forgive me if I just think you’re lazy and maybe you should just go to war thunder or fire up Atari’s river raid.

* Looks at hook *

* Swims away *

- oldman

[hazmatt]

go to war thunder

Uh, war thunder sim battles has on icons on enemy and only icons on friendly at like 300 range...
Heck even real battles doesn't always have icons depending on your crew training, approach direction and if they're hugging the deck.

Only arcade has icons like AH3.

[hitech]

IRL a wwII Radar gave you contact(s) with heading + range to enemy, and estimate altitude +- couple k feet within a distance of sectors- can an AI commanded voice or text give you that instead of a real time map AWACS icons ?


This give you a realistic reference to what you are up to and not it mix up with the actual dogfight, not even cold war planes, or even later planes should have that capability.


Of course no plane or vehicle should have its own radar, you need to give that info yourself to country/team.

Other sims have this and it works as intended - give you a picture of the situation, but not the actual dogfight situation.

Thoughts ?

You seem to not be thinking about the team of people who tracked planes from other forms of communication and the relayed it to those who needed it.  The display on the map is not meant to simulate radar, but rather a collections of sightings.

You may or may not like it , but don't try use a simplistic "radar" didn't do this, when that is not what the system is supposed to be doing.

HiTech

[Animl-AW]

The process of placing objects on a map in a WWII radio or operations room is known as military plotting. During World War II, a constant stream of information came via teleprinters, radio intercepts (such as HF/DF or "Huff-Duff"), and phone lines into an operations center. Plotters (often members of women's auxiliary branches like the WAAF or WRNS) used specialized equipment to track real-time troop, ship, and aircraft movements across a massive, gridded plotting table.

It’s shown in the last minutes of my MotA video and many places on YT.

Basically you’re radar is a plotter map style system.

The difference is you wouldn’t have that in your plane, you could have a paper map with markings and updates would be relayed over radio.

[captain1ma]

AWACS caused an exodus because it ruined air combat for many players. They weren’t asked. All of a sudden the most gamey thing that HT ever introduced just showed up. No test. No revisit. No feedback. Just a big middle finger to our intelligence. Since then it’s been a boon for the most lame parts of the air game and trashed the balance of the MA. Now players that have been here for eons are coming here and saying they can’t find a fight without it?!? Forgive me if I just think you’re lazy and maybe you should just go to war thunder or fire up Atari’s river raid.

At the very GD minimum…

A 30 TON TANK SHOULD NOT PAINT MY PLANE ON RADAR WHEN I CAN’T EVEN SEE THEM FROM 50ft AGL!!!

so a bunch of people left because they could see dots on a map? wow!

[Animl-AW]

so a bunch of people left because they could see dots on a map? wow!

I don’t think as many left because of dar in the big picture of low numbers. 1 million played AH, most came and left, many when 2 week trial ended. We may know of several to many, but it’s not the dragon breath of departures

[hazmatt]

so a bunch of people left because they could see dots on a map? wow!

Loosers!

[Rubicon]

You seem to not be thinking about the team of people who tracked planes from other forms of communication and the relayed it to those who needed it.  The display on the map is not meant to simulate radar, but rather a collections of sightings.

You may or may not like it , but don't try use a simplistic "radar" didn't do this, when that is not what the system is supposed to be doing.

HiTech

True, aircraft tracking and communication relays existed.  It was able to tell groups of aircraft the approximate location, altitude and direction of travel of another group of aircraft.  However it was still a blunt instrument and was designed to guide fighters to contact with the enemy.

In the iteration we currently have in AH it is possible to manage your individual fights because the radar is so accurate.  I can tell when an enemy plane changes direction in real time so while I fight one aircraft I can manage 2, 3 or 4 others just by referring to the map.  If I ever lose sight of the enemy in a fight I can just refer to the map and it will tell me not only where they are but also where their nose it pointing.  Classic 'bounces' or 'lose sight lose the fight' simply no longer exists.

Diving into the clouds was a legitimate form of evasion.  Not in here, just track using the map or via the plane highlight function available with the tab button.

Using terrain to mask your movements is not possible.  If I lose sight of a target I am chasing because they manage to go around a hill and break my visual contact I can just monitor the map to see if they reverse on me or make any other changes until I can clear the crest and regain visual contact.

This is the level of detail that the radar gives at the moment.  I think it detracts from the game rather than adds to it

[hitech]

True, aircraft tracking and communication relays existed.  It was able to tell groups of aircraft the approximate location, altitude and direction of travel of another group of aircraft.  However it was still a blunt instrument and was designed to guide fighters to contact with the enemy.

In the iteration we currently have in AH it is possible to manage your individual fights because the radar is so accurate.  I can tell when an enemy plane changes direction in real time so while I fight one aircraft I can manage 2, 3 or 4 others just by referring to the map.  If I ever lose sight of the enemy in a fight I can just refer to the map and it will tell me not only where they are but also where their nose it pointing.  Classic 'bounces' or 'lose sight lose the fight' simply no longer exists.

Diving into the clouds was a legitimate form of evasion.  Not in here, just track using the map or via the plane highlight function available with the tab button.

Using terrain to mask your movements is not possible.  If I lose sight of a target I am chasing because they manage to go around a hill and break my visual contact I can just monitor the map to see if they reverse on me or make any other changes until I can clear the crest and regain visual contact.

This is the level of detail that the radar gives at the moment.  I think it detracts from the game rather than adds to it

We have an update interval for just that reason, would you like it to be longer?

HiTech

[hazmatt]

I can tell when an enemy plane changes direction in real time so while I fight one aircraft I can manage 2, 3 or 4 others just by referring to the map.

I agree. I never used to fly with the map open but once awacs came a long I would fly with the map constantly open. It seemed a bit "gamey" but you had to do it to be competitive against others who were doing it.

Maybe the update delay HT is talking about would help?

[Rubicon]

We have an update interval for just that reason, would you like it to be longer?

HiTech

Thanks for the response.  Yes, I think it should be longer.  How much longer might be a question for the community rather than my individual opinion, but since my opinion was asked for:

I would set the refresh rate at 60 seconds.

This conveys the general information without making it usable as an in combat monitoring system.

[Spikes]

It would be interesting if tower radar update rate stayed the same but plane radar update rate was much longer to reflect the idea that it is communicated and not proper radar.

I've always thought with the plane radar, if you couldn't actually see the icon on your screen, it doesn't work (eg if you're looking the other way or the plane is under you). But I'm sure that would be incredibly difficult to make happen.