Author Topic: HTC.. What is up with AA? (Read 970 times)

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #30 on:** July 30, 2001, 01:16:00 PM »

I was describing to you how I think the program works. Since I program, I know how certain things go about doing things.

You obviously decided to not read my whole post either:
"Maybe somewhere in the program though, there's a point at which the ack reaches that magic number in the speed area that it makes the ack aim faster and better."

Maybe rather than getting irate and upity with people trying to clue you in, you could read and understand it better.
-SW

Vruth · « **Reply #31 on:** July 30, 2001, 02:00:00 PM »

Hey, I'm a programmer too and something just isn't right with the ACK. You are wrong swulfe.

It's either too accurate or too stupid and the P-51D suffers from easy damage when flying fast over any airbase. I know, I was brought down/damaged twice Friday over A8 - not by the 5 Nikies that were chasing me, but the one ping that AAA hit me doing a 500 TAS turn pass over the base and hit my radiator, and the second was a 550TAS bombing loop I did on the VH that hit my engine oil. WTF?

Magic in the programming? HUH? A special number that makes the AI gunners smarter?

Don't think so.

Something needs to be done. Either force manual operation of the AAA or fix the AI model so it's fair for all pilots.

V.

Paxil · « **Reply #32 on:** July 30, 2001, 02:10:00 PM »

Again... don't know what the cause of this is... but I have learned to stay away from Ack in a P51. Yes... I can kill ack... but if you are in range and don't kill it first... you are DEAD MEAT. Other planes... I've watched them fly back and forth over a field 15 times without a ping.

If you don't believe there is something a bit freaky with P51's and ack... fly over a large field at 25K or so and watch the first burst take you down. At first I though the ack was just super ack... but I can fly over a large field with a bomber and rarely does the ack bother me.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #33 on:** July 30, 2001, 02:10:00 PM »

Yes Vruth it's possible. Maybe you are thinking in terms of normal programs. The Ack has a central aiming point. It is programmed to randomly aim at or near that point. It is programmed to gradually get closer to that aiming point barring any manuevering.

It is quite possible that going over a certain speed triggers the ack to re-calculate faster.

"Magic in the programming? HUH? A special number that makes the AI gunners smarter?

Don't think so."

I didn't say that.. I see you are getting all high and mighty too.
-SW

flakbait · « **Reply #34 on:** July 30, 2001, 02:14:00 PM »

I've seen this too. Both offline and in H2H I can de-ack a field never exceeding 250mph in an Il-2. Not camping in the field, mind you, but making passes straight through it. The most damage I've taken was a shot off flap. I tried the same thing in a Typhoon at 350+ mph and what happens? Right aileron shot off, tail wheel shot off, right flap shot off. Tried it again, this time in a Tempest, and I lost my left wing on the first pass. It seems the ack is programmed to hit only fast-movers and leave the slow-pokes alone.

-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #35 on:** July 30, 2001, 02:16:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by flakbait:
I've seen this too. Both offline and in H2H I can de-ack a field never exceeding 250mph in an Il-2. Not camping in the field, mind you, but making passes straight through it. The most damage I've taken was a shot off flap. I tried the same thing in a Typhoon at 350+ mph and what happens? Right aileron shot off, tail wheel shot off, right flap shot off. Tried it again, this time in a Tempest, and I lost my left wing on the first pass. It seems the ack is programmed to hit only fast-movers and leave the slow-pokes alone.

Thank you Flakbait! That compounded with what I said makes my statement hold more water, now doesn't it Vruth and Midnight?
-SW

Midnight · « **Reply #36 on:** July 30, 2001, 02:44:00 PM »

Maybe it does Wulf, but then what about RWY's test?

Maybe it's not just the P-51, but I don't fly other fighters, so I guess I won't know unless I get in and try.

But the point still stands as to why AA can hit a fast moving plane (not flying in a direct straight line) and not hit a big bomber or other slow mover.

AA guns of the type shown in AH were hand-cranked units with a simple iron sight. Do think it is realistic for the AA to be able to track a target moving so fast?

And another note, I just watched some AA shooting at a plane as it passed over the tower. As soon as the plane went over the AA gun, it INSTANTLY turned 180 degrees to start shooting again.

Strange thing though... it was a slow N1k and didn't take any hits, despite turning back around while still in the AA range and 3 or 4 guns still shooting at it the whole time.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #37 on:** July 30, 2001, 02:47:00 PM »

jinx = curse
jinks = quick, short maneuvers

One is 4 letters, one is 5, takes less effort to type 4 letters, just like Chog, rather than F4U-1C..

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #38 on:** July 30, 2001, 02:51:00 PM »

Midnight, it is most likely related to how the ack is programmed to track it.

Coming it at high speeds and angled towards the ack probably means the ack tracks faster and reacquires it's target faster.

Flying straight over it (ie: in level flight, slowly) probably tricks the programming or it is programmed to not hit those kinds of targets.

Here's what I think (I'm not saying it's right.. but I think this is how it works):

As an aircraft picks up speed, the ack reaquires and concentrates it's fire faster. This becomes even worse if you are flying in towards the ack (ie: aiming your nose in the general direction of the ack). HT has been known to be very much against "vulching" if there is ack up. So maybe he programmed it so that it will aim and destroy planes faster that are going in towards the field as opposed to simply flying over it (although this makes the job of flying a bomber through ack way too easy)...

This is a possibility, and certainly should be revised if this is the case.
-SW

Ripsnort · « **Reply #39 on:** July 30, 2001, 03:05:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Midnight:
Maybe it does Wulf, but then what about RWY's test?

.

One test never concludes anything, you must have a baseline, you must repeat the test over and over again, with the same identical parameters, and by various end-users...I know, this is what I do for a living.

Paxil · « **Reply #40 on:** July 30, 2001, 04:21:00 PM »

I'm not convinced this is a speed related issue... because when I was at 25K in a heavy (bombs and rockets) P-51 I wasn't exactly moving fast.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #41 on:** July 30, 2001, 05:24:00 PM »

Speed is one of the factors Paxil.

OTOH, I am talking about Ack. At 25K there is no ack, only flak.

That uses a totally different algorithm.
-SW

Steven · « **Reply #42 on:** July 30, 2001, 07:36:00 PM »

Ripsnort,

_______________
One is 4 letters, one is 5, takes less effort to type 4 letters
__________________

Heh heh. Okay. Just wanted to be clear you guys are actually maneuvering against the ack and not just yelling explatives at it.

-Puke

lazs1 · « **Reply #43 on:** July 31, 2001, 08:15:00 AM »

wait... are u saying that the ack is much harder on planes over 10k and on mustangs in particular? If that is true... I don't really see any problem.
lazs