everyone enjoys psychic instant Flak.

[Citabria]

why else would it be in the game unless everyone found it added realism and was enjoyable?

correct?

[LePaul]

 

Originally posted by Citabria:
why else would it be in the game unless everyone found it added realism and was enjoyable?

correct?

Yea, its crazy.  Flew over a field at 22k in a Lanc.  On black poof and I was in the hangar.  Its a bit weird.



------------------
Paul J. Busiere

Aces High Arena handle:  BD5Pilot
 http://bd5.checksix.net
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)

[Kieran]

At the risk of being flamed for going against the grain...

Anyone complaining about the tracking ability of the ack has a point IMHO. It doesn't ack like real gunners should, no doubt. Still, as an early iteration I think it is a good start and does introduce an element of risk to, yes, high bombers.

What I don't understand is people complaining about dying in one hit. The German 88 was feared with good reason; it could and did kill a large number of Allied bombers, many with a single hit (or even a near miss). That is what should happen if you are hit directly with a high-explosive 88mm anything.

It seemed to me that a large number of people really wanted ack, until we got it. Are we really suggesting the ack should be removed?

No doubt it is a huge pain in the butt to take off from a base under the enemy ack umbrella, but is that a modelling problem or is that a player issue? In real life no admiral would be crazy enough to use a carrier like a landing craft; it would get sunk, and it would take months to replace. We therefore see carriers virtually washing ashore, daring planes to lift off. I can say it wouldn't have taken the Allies so long to take back the Pacific Islands if it was that easy. What we have is a larger version of the respawn "problem"; it just doesn't matter that much if a carrier is lost, so risk it.

The absolute only thing I would think about touching on our current ack is the AI; it is ridiculously easy to get through field ack, and almost as easy to get around the fleet (at least in my experience anyway). Tone down the power of the ack and it just becomes so much pattern on the wallpaper.

[LePaul]

No flames from me, Kieran, and I agree with most everything you say here.  But there seem to not be a whole lot of bombers in this game (I love to fly them and simply do not see a lot of them up in the air).  Its somewhat of a frsutration to the bomber guys like me to take 45 minutes to get up to alt and cruise, and one poof of smoke and you are back in the tower.

From the guys getting bombed, its great that something they arent required to man automatically vaporizes a high altitude threat.  But for the bomber guy, its massively frustrating.  I can endure a whole flock of black puffs telling me I need to make some sort of defensive move (change alt, etc)...but when its the first shot and I've had no chance to protect myself, thats maddening.

I see your point, hope you see mine.  Realism and playablity are a tough scale to balance.



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Paul J. Busiere

Aces High Arena handle:  BD5Pilot
 http://bd5.checksix.net
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)

[BUG_EAF322]

While i was chased by 5 nme planes i could outclimb them one off them was very close at D600 i managed to get rid off them.

Than i realized i was over nme cv boem knal
i was gone how frustrating  

[Nash]

I think flack in AH is highly annoying.

But... I'd take annoying AH flack over RL WWII flack any day.


It's *supposed* to piss ya off   In fact it's supposed to even kill ya the odd time.. Fancy that, eh?  

[gatt]

I'm waiting for the cheerleaders to show up and say: "Stop whining, sink the CV (and/or) bomb the field and the problem is gone!"

 

[Vosper]

I could almost understand the flak tracking bombers this easily since they fly a more predictable route, and at a slower speed.  It's when they can insta-track diving, twisting fighters - well, it's bloody annoying to know nothing you try will evade them.

As it is, I think I've had better success flying thru flak in a bomber than with a fighter.  

Cheers

[Cobra]

Not a flame or cheerleading (but nice constructive addition to the thread gatt   )

But LePaul, how many sorties over flak have you flown and on those sorties how many times has a single, first flak hit got you.?  Everytime....80%...50%...25%?  And was it the first flak burst that you saw, or one after many?  What I'm trying to get out, is your post above typical of every sortie you have over flak?  Or was it your first sortie over flak, or was it one of many sorties over flak, but the first time you got hit like that?

Here's my point.   At some point, the flak will hit you.  Maybe not on every sortie, maybe on your first sortie.

I have flown many sorties over CV flak and Field Flak and I have been hit on some, killed on some, and made it thru totally un-scathed on some.  To me, it seems to equal out.

One thing I did notice.  If you are flying in a tight formation over the Flak, the closest guy to the lead gets hit everytime.  We spread out now, when over the flak, and it seems to have worked.

Cobra

[This message has been edited by Cobra (edited 04-12-2001).]

[Skuzzy]

As someone who flies bombers pretty much exclusively, I find the flak to add some excitement to rather long boring flights.

Wanna tip?  On approach to CV's or fields, do not take a straight line of approach.  A nice slow turn is usually sufficient enough to keep that first ack burst from hitting you and do not switch to the bomb site until the last minute.  I usually am at the bomb site for about 2 to 3 seconds.
Sometimes I take a hit, most of the time I come away unscathed.  It takes practice, but that is also fun for me.
It does not take wild manuevers to avoid the ack.  Gentle scissors will usually do the job for bombers anyways.

Also, if you can manage to get fighter support, have the fighter fly about 4K lower when at close range to a field and have them go first.  The ack will train on the fighter first and give you time to setup and make the run.  This tactic works really well.

All I see the ack doing is forcing more cooperation between fighters and bombers to make a mission successful, which adds to the immersion, IMHO.

In all the missions I have flown, in bombers, ack has only gotten me once.  I have lost engines, and some other sundry damage, but only one time has it actually killed me.

Quite frankly Cit,..you and that 38 are more of a nuisance to me as a bomber pilot than the ack will ever be.  

------------------
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net

[Ripsnort]

Take a P51, fly 5 miles near an enemy CV.  The first burst gets you everytime if you are straight and level (ie. you don't know its down there till you are dying).  It's happened to me several times, watched it happen to TerraC last night, he was 500 yards in front of me, first flak burst killed him.  Seems some A/C attract first burst flak than others.

[gatt]

 

Originally posted by Cobra: Not a flame or cheerleading (but nice constructive addition to the thread gatt   (Image removed from quote.) )

Your right Cobra, but what about a nice and simple fix to the weird UFO things ack-ack does? Actually, my squaddies stay away from the CV groups furballs. But sometimes its difficult. Our best pilot canceled his account and we all find this thing very annoying. Obviously, it is only our humble opinion.

[Skuzzy]

LOL Rip,...The only thing I can accomplish in a fighter plane is to try to starve the enemy of ammo.  I am pretty good at that though  .

------------------
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
President, AppLink Corp.
http://www.applink.net
skuzzy@applink.net

[easymo]

  I enjoyed it so much I canceled my account.

[BUG_EAF322]

what also is unrealistic that flak is shoooting while their own fighters are in the area.

Flak and Ack should stop shooting when they know this or at least make it as lethal for them.

Getting gamed and lured into flak is very annoying