Author Topic: Real Life Aviation vs. A Game  (Read 148 times)

Offline Beegerite

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Real Life Aviation vs. A Game
« on: January 13, 2002, 12:07:32 PM »
I've been in AH about 2 years and often wonder why my +3000 flight hours haven't helped me one bit.  I wonder if there is any reality and truly modeled flight physics across the entire spectrum or is it just a well designed game with very few real life aircraft attributes modeled.  Does it do any good to apply real life tactics as described in various texts and training manuals e.g. is a snap roll in AH the same as in real life,  or does the lack of real life flight physics totally negate anything but only worrying about lag and how it will affect me?  What do you think AH is?

1) A truly modeled flight simulator
2) A game
3) A highly addictive endeavor calling for the formation of
    Aces High Anonymous and family intervention
4) Anyone willing to practice 10 hrs. per day can achieve #1 rank.

Beeg

Offline Kieran

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Real Life Aviation vs. A Game
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2002, 12:25:09 PM »
Kid yourself not, this is first and foremost a game- as is everything else on the web. The real question is, "Is it a GOOD game?"

If it is a good game it will allow you to suspend disbelief long enough to be pulled into the world and action. It will make you forget you are looking at a screen full of excited electrons and make you use your imagination to fill in the gaps that are missing. It will pull you away from your real-life tedium for a blissful period of time, and it will give you ultimate control over your own actions and places your virtual fate on the decisions you make- all in a non-lethal manner.

To this end there needs to be enough reality to make it feel real, yet enough concession to make it fun to play. You must have the freedom to play the Walter Mitty, to go on brave exploits of daring-do, or to die horribly in a fireball assured that life begins anew with the click of a button.

Yes, playing more will make you more adept, hone your reflexes, score you more points, and raise your rank. There is the place where "more is less" however, and too many of our high-hour pilots forget that yes, they too can die, and can no longer take it in stride. One of the surest ways to know it is time for a break is when you see an open channel tirade by some high-time joker who was shot down. If you can't have fun when you die (and you will die), then you probably shouldn't play this "game".  ;)

Not directed at "you", rather the royal "you".

Offline beet1e

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Real Life Aviation vs. A Game
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2002, 05:12:29 PM »
Beegerite

This was an issue very close to my heart when I first started flying the Warbirds sim about 4 years ago. I had about 900 hours flying small civilian types, and it counted for squat. The surprising thing is that I have since met a real life F15E pilot who tried out a modern day sim which included F15s, and was getting killed all over the arena.

When I first started in Warbirds, the handling of the planes just didn't seem real to me. In Aces High, the planes are much more what I would expect of WW2 planes, given my civilian flight experience. You didn't say in which type of plane you gained your 3000 hours; I'd be interested to know.

I have just voted in your poll. Of course it's just a game. But you'd be surprised at the number of guys in WB 4 years ago who thought of it as real flying, and cited my "inability to deal with WW2 planes". The telltale signs were when these guys referred to themselves (and their other gaming heroes) as "pilots".  I was accused of  misunderstanding the dynamics of WW2 planes as my experience stretched only to small civilian types.  To which I replied that at least my Socata TB10 had two wings and an engine, and asked how many wings and engines their PCs had, and how often they gained a height of more than 4 feet.   They didn't like that.  As far as they were concerned, Warbirds WAS realism, and any civilian flying experience I could offer was worthless. So many of these guys held visions of themselves of computerised reincarnations of WW2 aces like Adolf Galland and Erich Hartmann.

One of the things I didn't like about WB was that it allowed stick inputs to be applied far beyond those which could physically be applied by the pilot. If you pull the stick back too hard, you will black out, at which point your consciousness will begin to fade and your back pressure on the stick will naturally relax. Of course, with unpowered controls, the pilot may not have the physical strength to make full control movements above certain speeds. In WB at that time, your REAL consciousness was not affected even if your screen went black and you could continue to pull the stick harder. It seemed that the sim would arrive at the results of this by extrapolation, and in my case would send my 190 into an irrecoverable spin. Part of the problem was solved by reinstallation of the FULL version of the game, and then using the default stick settings. I had to be careful with the stick. When I expressed concern about this to one of the trainers, and said that in real life aerobatics one has to yank the stick quite forcefully in some manoeuvres, he said I'd been watching too many movies.  I didn't bother to tell him that I had flown real aerobatics in a Pitts S2A, in which an aileron roll, for example, is executed by a rapid movement of the stick to the aileron control stop. That guy had probably never been in a real aircraft cockpit in his life. Still, he was only trying to help.

Eventually, WB2.73 came out and to some extent the forces required to move the stick began to be modelled. I thought this was a big step forward. Some guys were disgusted and decided to quit!  They could not longer do their dweebish arcade snap rolls.

I continued with WB, but thought of it only as a game after that. One of my pet hates was the ridiculously overmodelling of blackouts and, more especially, redouts. Push the nose down 10° and you'd get a redout lasting 5 seconds. Running over a crater in the runway produced a G-force blackout, and yet even then someone leapt up to defend the sanctity of the WB modelling.

Offline Beegerite

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Real Life Aviation vs. A Game
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2002, 07:41:21 PM »
Thanks for the input, keep 'em cards and letters coming.  Since I didn't mention it before my flight time is in ASEL with flight instructor and instrument ratings which are quite rusty.  Most experience in C-150, C-172 and the like with some multi-engine and complex aircraft time in there for seasoning.

Seems that most so far look at this as a game.  Maybe my expectations were too high.

Beeg

Offline funkedup

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Real Life Aviation vs. A Game
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2002, 08:52:46 PM »
Poll or thinly veiled whine?  The four choices are not at all mutually exclusive.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2002, 09:02:21 PM by funkedup »

Offline AKIron

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Real Life Aviation vs. A Game
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2002, 10:12:44 PM »
Would have to pick:

 e. all of the above

Daughter's piano teacher was fond of saying "perfect practice make perfect". That's why I'm still so bad at this game.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Real Life Aviation vs. A Game
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2002, 01:03:13 AM »
I'm a flight instructor. I love AH, it's one of the sim who gave me the best feeling of flying a plane.

The answer appears to me pretty simple:
As far as real flight hours, it has nothing to do with how succesfull you will be in the game. What makes you successfull in combat is tactics; flying must be second nature in a fight. You should have the flying part nailed with 3,000 "hours", your success will come with your understanding of your surronding.
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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Offline Beegerite

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Real Life Aviation vs. A Game
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2002, 11:12:50 PM »
Ahhhhh!  Now I have it.  Being 59 can't be helping at all.  Hell, I can't remember what I had for dinner.
Beeg
Quote
Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
I'm a flight instructor. I love AH, it's one of the sim who gave me the best feeling of flying a plane.

The answer appears to me pretty simple:
As far as real flight hours, it has nothing to do with how succesfull you will be in the game. What makes you successfull in combat is tactics; flying must be second nature in a fight. You should have the flying part nailed with 3,000 "hours", your success will come with your understanding of your surronding.

Offline Beegerite

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Real Life Aviation vs. A Game
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2002, 11:18:03 PM »
Bit of an underlying whiiiine in here Funked.  Guess it can be said that I would like this game to be so real that instead of just having to remember to shoot the enemy you would have to remember everything that a real life pilot would e.g. prop settings, manifold pressure, flaps etc.  However, as I said in my last reply to Frenchy, I can't remember what I had for dinner so I'd probably be just as dead.
Beeg

P.S. Also my first poll and not as well thought out as I would have liked.

Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
Poll or thinly veiled whine?  The four choices are not at all mutually exclusive.