dont speed in finland

[Staga]

btw biggest mistake that guy did was overspeed of 25kmh. IF he'd only drove 20kmh overspeed the fee would bee about 100$.

Our "Road Transportation Law" knows two different protocols when calculating fine:
If your overspeed is less than 15kmh in 60kmh speed limit fine will be about 75$. Overspeed 15-20kmh and fine will be about 100$. If speedlimit is higher than 60kmh tickets are 60 and 90$.

Things go interested if your speed is over 20kmh faster than limit, then fines will be calculated from your netto incomes.

btw usually our polices aren't interested to give tickets from small overspeed; I've passed cop-cars in highway with 10-15kmh overspeed. Once I was scared to death while I was passing a chain of cars in a highway with +40kmh overspeed (MB 280SE) and saw the cops in front of that traffic jam. I braked smoothly in front of them and "out run" them with small overspeed but guess they were having better things to do than write a ticket to me

[Xjazz]

Originally posted by Krusher

Mr Vanjoki is a Harley Davidson enthusiast
 
Police say he was driving at 75 km/h (47 mph) in a 50km/h (31 mph) zone.

Does Massey Davidson (or was it Harley Ferguson?) really speed so mush and hold up in one piece?

[miko2d]

You guys are arguing as if there was one true way to settle the fines/punishments issue. There isn't.
 Unlike laws of nature which are objective and immutable and can be discovered to ever-closer degree, the legal laws are based on prevaling culture and morals.

 Since those are ever-varying, there is no reason to expect that laws in two different cultures should ever be the same. Moreover, it logically follows that for every human the laws of different culture will seem incorrect - because he is judging them by standards of his own culture.

 Wise people realise that and never argue the validity or correctness of the other nation' laws other then in a very narrow context with carefully specified criteria valid only for this one argument - like "which laws in that particular culture would be better in promoting economic growth/population increase/crime decrease/technological progress/...".

 In case of Finland, many US laws would not yield the same result in Finland as they would in US or would be redundant and vice-versa.

 In fact, if all laws were suddenly abolished, the finnish society would IMO experience much less change/upheaval/disintegration then US society would - because due to their prevailing cultural traditions finns are not americans.

 miko

[GRUNHERZ]

Mrsid2 yes rich people dont need to obey laws........ Right... Thats exactly what I said.


I also said its criminal and communist that anyone be asked to pay $100,000 for a speeding ticket. But I guess you were so busy reading the part where I wrote rich people dont need to obey laws that you missed that.......


I say everyone pays a small reasonable fine for every speeding offense, if they speed more times then they get their license revoked.

But I guess you cant revoke the license of rich people, huh?



Man you communist asslicker socialists are so stupid.

[midnight Target]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Mrsid2 yes rich people dont need to obey laws........ Right... Thats exactly what I said.


I also said its criminal and communist that anyone be asked to pay $100,000 for a speeding ticket. But I guess you were so busy reading the part where I wrote rich people dont need to obey laws that you missed that.......


I say everyone pays a small reasonable fine for every speeding offense, if they speed more times then they get their license revoked.

But I guess you cant revoke the license of rich people, huh?



Man you communist asslicker socialists are so stupid.

Grunherz, is this a troll? I ask only because you usually don't sound like such a knumbskull in your posts.

The point is to KEEP PEOPLE FROM SPEEDING! If the fine is weighted to allow a similarly painful penalty for everyone it will be more of a deterent for everyone. Letting them "speed more times"  doesn't make the roads safer..........duh.

[GRUNHERZ]

Let me clarify, though i thought it was pretty straigtforward .

If people are cited and fined for speeding a certain number of times they get their driving privelage revoked. That way nobody no matter how wealthy or poor will want to speed as the final punishment is beyond money.

I just dont think its reasonable that anyone no matter how wealthy be fined $100,000 for speeding.

A $100,000 dollar penalty for speeding just because you are wealthy is no different than communist wealth redistribution schemes, I dislike this.


Did I put it better this time TahGut?

[ra]

It just seems to me that basing the penalty for a crime based on income is unjust.  If the crime requires jail time, is income taken into consideration?  A rich man spending 1 year in jail could end up ruined, while a poor man doing 1 year for the same crime is merely inconvenienced.  So the rich should do less jail time for the same crime, right?

This is the kind of law I would have expected from France, not Finland.

ra

[Staga]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Man you communist asslicker socialists are so stupid.

Heh first time I heard some genius from another side of the world calling me a communist/socialist 'cause I feel our juridical system usually works fine.

[Vector]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I say everyone pays a small reasonable fine for every speeding offense, if they speed more times then they get their license revoked.[/i]

Correct if I'm wrong, but this is the case in Finland; 2 (or 3?) speed fines and your driver license is gone. I think current system is ok (well I've never got any kind of fines in traffic during my.. hmmpphhh.. 18 years of driving). Overspeeding is plain stupid, irresponsible and they indeed should be punished in the hard way. However IMHO for everyone paying same amount of fine doesn't serve its purpose as MrSid2 stated. Current system is OK! Why should people overspeed anyway??

Man you communist asslicker socialists are so stupid.

Now that was some most intelligent statement I've heard from this board ever! Sheesh, you just repeat old  communist fear of USA from 60's, and I've always thought american's got over it, glad you corrected that. What comes to communism in Finland, yes we have communist party here as well as every different political party you can imagine. I don't mind, it just brings more views to political decisions. Speak up Grun, it helps! Perhaps in someday you can be free of your fear of communism!!
No offence!

[miko2d]

Grun,
 it may not sound normal to us but there is a lot of logic in that kind of rules.

 If someone commits a crime of murder, you cut of his head - even though some heads are more valuable. If someone steals, you can make case of cutting off his hand - though the same argument appies.

 In the area near where I live, people often try to run the yellow light while others try to move just before their light changes to green. As a result every couple of days you see a car thrown way into the pavement area where pedestrians are walking - who do not violate any rules.

 If you had a child that was playing nead the road where speeders were frequenting, you would want every one to be stopped right away, not wait for the rich one untill he accumulates enough violations (each of them at the expence of risk to your child or someone elses). If we judge the law by the efficiency of the prevention hands down the finnish approach is right.

 You may reasonably have different expectation of what the law should accomplish. There were many precedents where people could buy a right to a violation even before they commited the transgression - even Catholic church found them usefull at one time.

 If you value everything in absolute dollar terms, then you may well be right. But then to be consistent you would have to put an absolute and fixed value on the lives of your children. How many dollars would you be willing to set in advance to allow death of all of them?
 Since I would not care how much money were in my account after I was gone but how many children were alive and well, that calculation does not make sence to me. But you may well have different values. Nothing unusial - many people did and do up to the point to sacrificing them towards some other goal more important to them.
 You are here and not in Finland. Be content with that.

 Nothing to do with communism - payments proportional to person's wealth/income were common way before communism was invented.

 How come I pay much more income tax them average american? Do I get more military protection? No.
Do I use public facilities more? To the contrary, I buy my own accomodations to much larger degree.

 If US government was a private corporations selling subscriptions I would either pay same as everybody else or had some kind of "platinum" service.
 If that is not a communism in your definition, then what is - and I am not even a speeding criminal endangering someone's life but a law abiding citizen.
 On the other hand it is a long-standing cultural tradition of many societies and you do not have to drag in communism to explain it.

 miko

[mrsid2]

I think the real problem here is that GRUNHERZ is confusing communism with everything he sees unjust.

If he was a homophobic, he'd call those rules 'gay.'

I take offence from your accusations GRUN, since I think our country has killed far more communists in defence of our country and way of living than your has. In fact, when we were sheading our blood fighting them, your present country was allied to them.. think about that.

That aside, these same traffic laws are more or less same in all the nordic countries. I think Sweden has even bigger punishments from ours..

RA: Both the rich and poor man will serve the same amount of time in jail. You have to realise that a jailsentence is a punishment for doing something illegal, not something any normal person can just stumble to and ruin his life.. It's something you have to conciously do to achieve it.

Therefore if the rich mans life is ruined by the jail sentence (which it wont since he can run his business from the joint -small offenders can serve thier time in a so-called open jail) it's solely his own fault that he got himself in the situation. We all know the rules and know what's at stake if we break them.

And I agree with Miko, there are many things in our society that even I can't sometimes understand, like why our country offers public services like hospital care practically for free for anyone who is living here regardless of nationality.. Or why we give full social security benefits to gypsies that smuggle themselves here from central europe with fake humanitarian reasons.. Just as there are many things in the US society that goes beyond my reasoning.

The main point is that if either one of us disagrees with the system - we have feet. Just move to another country if you don't like the system. Simple as that.

For now I have appreciated the high rate of social security and medical care provided to me by the goverment - opposed to the high tax rates I have to pay in order to support the system. I was unemployed for 3 years during which time the government gave me money for rent, electricity and then some spending money.. I just heard from the news that there are 100 000 people newly unemployed in NY and big part of them is staying homeless on the streets. That would never happen in finland.

[Vector]

Hmm, this ain't looking good. I wouldn't drag WWII here, soon it's WWI, WWII, Vietnam etc etc and we have some major conflict here about who salvaged who.
There is one thing that I'd bring to Finland from USA in any day; The death penalty! I can't believe that human can take another humans life and walk as a free men after sitting less than 10 years (if he's/she's first timer) in prison  Doesn't make any sense for me. Eye from the eye!
Uh oh, sorry for hijacking, back to the subject..

[miko2d]

Originally posted by mrsid2
I think the real problem here is that GRUNHERZ is confusing communism with everything he sees unjust.
If he was a homophobic, he'd call those rules 'gay.'

 You are going too far and too personal here. Involving communism here is not so far-fetched as to accuse Grun in mindless hatemongering.


since I think our country has killed far more communists in defence of our country and way of living than your has. In fact, when we were sheading our blood fighting them, your present country was allied to them.. think about that.
 From what I know (based on the soviet and german generals' recollections), Finland successfully protected the northern part of the Leningrad front from german troops - even though it was supposed to be allied with Germany.
 You may argue that Finland refused to attack the front from which russians withdrew but the token troops and did not allow german troops to take those positions  for attack for some other reason then complicity with russians and that it did not buy it's independence after the WWII this way but you would have hard time persuading me (in some otehr thread, please).

The main point is that if either one of us disagrees with the system - we have feet. Just move to another country if you don't like the system. Simple as that.
 Or try to elect the government that would enact different laws.
 Or stage a successfull revolt... Or is that revolution? There is no such thing as successfull revolt, right? Only bad people revolt. Good = victorious people are called revolutionaries.

I just heard from the news that there are 100 000 people newly unemployed in NY and big part of them is staying homeless on the streets. That would never happen in finland.
 That is absolutely not true and I am surprised that someone living in Finland as (opposite to some ignorant backwater country) would believe such crap.
 We have more charities here then budgets of several countries like Finland. You can be pretty sure that barring single exceptions the homeless people are those mentally sick persons who - despite efforts of authorioties - refuse to leave their chosen way of life. There are plenty of laywers specialising in protecting homeless from the police who try to get them off the streets whenever it gets dangerously cold.
 We take our freedoms seriously here - even if some poor mentally sick person end up voluntarily freezing to death under a policemen's eyes...


 miko

[mora]

Originally posted by Xarios
There is one thing that I'd bring to Finland from USA in any day; The death penalty! I can't believe that human can take another humans life and walk as a free men after sitting less than 10 years (if he's/she's first timer) in prison  Doesn't make any sense for me. Eye from the eye!
Uh oh, sorry for hijacking, back to the subject..

Death penalty is irrevocable thing, how about those who have and will be wrongly convicted?

[Vector]

Mora, you're right, there's always the danger of being convicted by no reason, but in Finland murders are investigated very carefully (because they are quite rare) and possibility of wrong judgement is minimal. Think about all those murdered people whos murderer is walking in our streets right at this moment, having fun and already forgotten the "stain" in their past, afterall they've "compensated" their actions by being in a prison for almost 10 years (and think about how much one prisoner costs to the state / day). However,  murdered people still remains murdered. Finland is protecting criminals whereas victims has little or no rights. Remember the rape case in Rauma few years ago? This punk was raping a pregnant women in a park when outsider heard them and punched that guy few times and saved the women. Well, that guy who punced the raper got convicted of his "violence" by the court of law! After citizens of Rauma rose a protest march for the convicted, court cancelled their judgement. What this proves? It proves that court can be blind and by this if death penalty ever comes to Finland, there must be much more accurate tracking system of each city's court by the covernment. But supporting victim instead of the criminal would be great first step to the right way.