Author Topic: Realistic Features Poll (Read 1290 times)

FDutchmn · « **Reply #15 on:** January 15, 2002, 02:55:41 PM »

Westy,

a question and a comment...

on pilot stamina/fatigue model - how is this modelled? Gamers' stamina might be enough

This game takes a lot of concentration and lord knows if ya had a bad day at work and your concentration is hosed, ya don't fly well...

on ability of using radio in a chute - people using RW will have an advantage over this one.

Just thoughts...

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #16 on:** January 15, 2002, 02:57:49 PM »

I would select x)All Of the Above....
except this one thing: "* Addition of a pilot stamina/fatigue model from repetative and
excessive G's and loss of strenght due to rolling/diving/blacking/
reding out, etc etc . "

That's just not realistic. We've had pilots (RL) that have told us they go through acrobatics in the air and still don't get very tired.
-SW

K West · « **Reply #17 on:** January 15, 2002, 03:11:33 PM »

Are they doing barrel rolls in 9,000 pound plus aircraft flying at 250mph?

I undertstand how acrobat could do loops, rolls, twisting stalls etc etc without tiring. owever those planes are lightly powered, fly much less than and weight a fraction of what a WWII aircraft did. I've read several accounts of how pilots were dog tired and drendhing in a sweat (from the fear and adrenalyne rush also I'm sure) after dogfighting. I'll try and find them to post.
But the suggestion (this is where I get to answer you two with one post

) has been more about fatigue and stamina in relation to constant blacking/redding out. AW modelled this pretty well. The more you blacked out, for example, the longer the black out lasted and the quicker it's onset when someone was constalty blakcing out very qucikcly and consequtively. Constant blacking out and emmediatley recovering, over and over very quicklyy, isn't normal.

"FD" as for RW you're quite right. But it's a lot better than everyone being able to get reports from a bailer. Right now I shoot them if they are at a base I'm defending. If they did not have the means to use AHvoice or the text radio then I'd save my ammo and also folks would hear a lot less gripes about chute shooting.

Westy

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2002, 03:18:50 PM »

I'm not gonna name names, because I don't remember. I think it was Toad though who said it. Might not be correct tho.
-SW

SOB · « **Reply #19 on:** January 15, 2002, 03:19:35 PM »

I voted for most of the stuff, but I think that no radio while in a chute one is a bad idea. Not that it would affect me at all;), but I like talking to and insulting my squaddies while flying...that's part of what this game is about.

SOB

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #20 on:** January 15, 2002, 03:23:32 PM »

Well blacking out itself is simply losing vision while retaining control. You'd have to have a strong heart and be very fit to keep on doing it, but since the airforces of the world require you to be fit and in shape (Helmutt Lipfert required his pilots to do pushups/situps/workout every day and once before a mission) then the effect that we would experience would be 10fold over what a pilot experiences. Especially if he does it 3 times a flight, for 1,000+ missions (German pilots lets say), there body would be adapted to it and would adjust blood level/pressure accordingly. The heart would also strengthen to send more blood to the brain/eyes.

It isn't normal, but the human body can do a lot of things that aren't "normal".
-SW

K West · « **Reply #21 on:** January 15, 2002, 03:55:50 PM »

"Especially if he does it 3 times a flight, for 1,000+ missions "

I mean in one engagment; dive, pull up sharp , twist, roll down hard flat turn hard left slit S, pull up hard again nose over but pull up hard break right and down fast pull up hard ... etc etc.
All those maneuvers and the redouts/blackouts within seconds of each other would have take a fantastic physical toll on any pilot. But in AH you can do all that and more.

SOB, I actually though of the FDB's (who doesn;t when the topic of shooting and chutes comes up!

) and I figured you all would quickly find a way around that short term obstacle

Westy

FDutchmn · « **Reply #22 on:** January 15, 2002, 04:00:51 PM »

Quote

AW modelled this pretty well.

Oh that! Actually, I see this already modelled in AH. The longer duration you black out, the longer it takes to recover. Although, they are not the same and on AH it is not as penalizing as it was on AW.

Quote

Right now I shoot them (chutes)

Westy shoots chutes?

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #23 on:** January 15, 2002, 04:01:16 PM »

The onset of a blackout/greyout might be a millisecond faster, but you aren't just gonna suddenly give out, fly straight and let the other guy shoot you down.

When your life is on the line, the adrenaline will pump you beyond super-human and you'll not be tired until after-the-fact. See where I'm going? I think that creating a stamina/fatigue model for the pilot is just an artificial way of forcing guys to fly more your way than flying to the best of their abilities... especially since in RL you fight until you are dead or the other guy is- either way you aren't going to be tired until well after-the-fact..
-SW

Wlfgng · « **Reply #24 on:** January 15, 2002, 04:13:32 PM »

IMO we aren't modeling pilots here.. we're modeling planes.

The pilot is YOU.. if you're tired, you fly tired
etc etc...

the back/red out and head shake are the only viable alternatives IMO.

Doberman · « **Reply #25 on:** January 15, 2002, 04:41:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Stain
The onset of a blackout/greyout might be a millisecond faster, but you aren't just gonna suddenly give out, fly straight and let the other guy shoot you down.

When your life is on the line, the adrenaline will pump you beyond super-human and you'll not be tired until after-the-fact.

This is true even when your life isn't on the line.

I've done some Fighter Pilots USA stuff and fought HT in one of their tournaments. We had an EARLY morning (like 9:00 AM - maybe even earlier) sortie after a late late night of drinking with the pilots & Bob Shaw. We were all pretty bleary eyed and tired to begin with, but as soon as the fight's on the adreniline kicks in so hard that all fatigue is gone.

Despite some heavy maneuvering and alot of time pulling serious G's (I blacked out after an extended time at 5.5 - 6 G's with no suit. My pilot said he was very surprised that I was able to remain concious as long as I had.

Practicing my anti-G exercises certainly helped.) neither of us had any lack of energy while in the air.

Of course, after we got back down and the adreniline rush subsuded I passed out on a couch for a coupla hours.

FWIW, HT won our 2 outta 3 engagements. Both times by me hitting the hard deck before him. Niether of us got more than a snap shot on the other and the fights all basically ended up as vertical circles with us both looking out the top of our cockpits at each other in 4+ G turns. (HT said his neck hurt for weeks afterwards.

) Our circles worked lower & lower and both times I got to the hard deck first.

This was in 1998, and HT went on to win the competition without much of a battle after I was out. I told 'em they shoulda held the best matchup in the middle of the day when the crowds were there.

D

K West · « **Reply #26 on:** January 15, 2002, 05:40:58 PM »

SW and Doberman I understand where you're coming from. But rest assured there's no hidden agenda to make anyone fly "my" way. This is a feature many folks feel is something missing and have asked for several times. I simply concur as it is somehting I've read in several pilot anecdotes - re: their aircombat experience. Perhaps it is something that did not happen much and in reality doesn't warrant modelling in a sim. I'm still going to try and find those anecdotes

Wolfgang. If HTC simply models only aircraft then why not ask then to toss out the head bobbing, the pilot wounded effect as well as the red and black outs? I just believe if you're going to have it then really do it and do it well.

Westy

Toad · « **Reply #27 on:** January 15, 2002, 09:05:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by K West

I mean in one engagment; dive, pull up sharp , twist, roll down hard flat turn hard left slit S, pull up hard again nose over but pull up hard break right and down fast pull up hard ... etc etc.
All those maneuvers and the redouts/blackouts within seconds of each other would have take a fantastic physical toll on any pilot. But in AH you can do all that and more.

Westy

Westy, not picking at you but have you ever read any WW2 Fighter Pilot memoirs that described a fight like that?

I've read a bunch, and I've never seen a fight described that was anything like that.

My take is that we can do things that just couldn't really be done in a WW2 cockpit OR for various reasons just WEREN'T done (not that they couldn't be done.. but weren't.) I don't think fatigue was the reason though.

As to the other thing, considering all these polls...

Let me ask a question.....

How many of the poll-takers that are listing all these things that need to be improved immediately have taken the time to either call the HTC offices and/or E-Mail them and say "Thanks... this is a truly great game" ?

Catching them in the arena and saying "WTG" is not what I'm talking about.

They get PLENTY of criticism, some of it quite heated... and we all know that.

How many of yas have taken the time to make them feel truly appreicated?

That's why I'd like to see that last option/pick I mentioned. Balance. Let them know that not everyone is hopping up and down on one foot waiting for these "gotta have" items.

K West · « **Reply #28 on:** January 16, 2002, 07:28:23 AM »

Toad, I think this poll ended up meandering down a side ally it never had been intended to go to. This was not any kind of poll created by me to express any displeasure nor an indication of being disgruntled.

I thought the polls were a nice new feature that would allow us customers one means of indicating to HTC our feelings on many different things.

My next was going to be "Ginger or Mary-Ann" I bet it would have recieved a far higgher response from viewers than the %15 percent this poll and many other averaged.

So take the 85% who did not respond for whatever reason as being the majority who say, things are fine; they don't care or they do not want any of these realism features.

Just don't take it for more than it was worth please. It was ever meant to be disparaging to HTC.

I can't speak for anyone else about passing on Kudos, Thanks or other words of appreciation to HTC for thier work AH. But I do it quite often and never miss a chance to. Be it a new feature, an old one I'm still impressed with, new aircraft and new art.

I just haven't sent any "graft" yet as I'm not sure how to hide such a thing from the wifey.

Westy

Bonden · « **Reply #29 on:** January 16, 2002, 08:26:06 AM »

I want windsocks at the airfields....