Silly Imigrants

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Daff
Amusing discussion, considering that the USA was build on immegrants .

Daff

Of course, back then, we didn't have this big Welfare state of union the liberals gave to us.

[Udie at Work]

Originally posted by fd ski
Let's see... "silly' imigrants as a title, since it is apparently silly to hope to keep your job and feed your family...


 No it's silly to sew their employer (the federal government now) over this at a time when we are at war.   They should be glad we haven't reacted like we did back in WW2 with internment camps.  They should be glad that we haven't thrown every non=citizen out of the country to protect ourselves.

You clearly suggest that they are only interested in nice little fed jobs so that they can free load for the rest of thier lives.

 See there you go inserting you're own false reality again, typical leftist liberal roadkill.   You can't argue based on what I said you have to make up something that you thought I said, or just plane lie about what I said.  BUT should we expect more from you? probobly not.  Why don't you read the post again, only this time open your mind to what's being said.  I'd explain further, but I think you're too blinded by idiology to understand.

 Then you make off hand reference to the "experiance"... and you follow up with the typical narrow-minded "go back to thier own country" crap.

 LOL!  I made a paraphrased quote about the experience.  AND I do think they should go back to their own countries for a while, maybe they'd learn why they came to the USA in the first place.

And this whole time you don't even know the difference between an illigal immigrant, and pernament resident.  

 Once again inserting your own false reality, typical...  Don't forget I live in the state that has the largest international border in the USA.  I've been in the home building / land development industry for over 10 yrs,  I've probobly worked with more illegal and legal imigrants than you've ever seen.

Put me on your list. If you can't handle debate on any subject, just call it "mommy those men don't agree with me" list.


 There are 2 people on that list,  you and weazel.  Go look at his last 10 or so post.  All of them are simply insulting posts with nothing to add to the debate other than anger.  I've done that in the past, but am trying to change my debating ways (thanks Tah Gut ) to bring some civility here.  Most of you're posts seem to fall in the same catagory as weazel's.  Somebody disagrees with you and you imediately start with the old leftist montra about conservatives.  You can't even openly or honestly look at another opinion with out doing this, at least this is the impression I've gotten of you over the past couple of years.  Anybody else agree?

 God you're pathetic fdski.  It's kind of hard to debate you when you keep changing the subject of the debate. Which is a typical leftist tactic to try and muddy the water.  You come and make smart bellybutton statements and personal attacks.  That's a sign of a weak mind.   Typical leftist crap.  To be honest with you I'd probobly be a democrat if it wasn't for people like you that refuse to accept reality.  The party is full of that mentality, it's dishonest and sad.

[miko2d]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
"Hand that feeds me ? I've earned my citizenship, how about you ?
 Udie was born here, he doesn't have to earn his since he was consider one of the lukiest as you put it.

Since when was earning a requirement for citizenship?

 It is not a legal issue but a moral one.
 In some respect Fd-Ski position is morally superior to that of Udie.

 Wherever one was born, he ended up defending US. It was his concious choice to be here and do that.
 I have no idea if Udie's choice is to be here other then through inertia and there is a much higher probability that if the same Udie was born outside, he may well have ended up on the opposing side.

 Without knowing Udie or Fd-Ski personally - just based on info available here, if I were told that one has joined Taliban and asked to bet which, I know where my money would go.

 That is a hypothetical argument of course since I know little bit and respect both FdSki and Udie and do not think either of them would think of joining Taliban. Actually, I side with Udie on more of the issues.

 There may be a case made that in some respects immigrant workers in general may be more reliable then americans in general.
 May be it would be better to have their citizenship expedited in some cases rather then have them wait 6 years - they will still be the same people, right?

 Those particular immigrants in question do sound like prettythangholes for not respecting our laws, however imperfect - but I understand that theya re pissed off becasue they are likely to lose their jobs (which they were not perfirming that well, apparently).

 Earning citisenship as a requirement would be a great benefit to the society. Our laws and customs openly admit it - while those born in US are not excluded, everybody else is carefully screened for granting legal residence and then tested for suitability for citizenship - including agreeing to bear arms in defence.
 Unless we assume that americans are different species from non-americans and somehow have the desirable properties genetically encoded, we just admit to certain hypocricy.
 Of course the rules are made by superior power (majority in this case) - so they do not necessarily have to be moral or even sensible.

 Can you tell that I am a Heinlein fan?

 miko

[fd ski]

@Rip,
for we all know that welfare is used only by immigrants....

If you had a clue on the subject you would know that:
- illigal immigrants have no walfare, none, nada, ziltch. Applying for such usually results in them getting flown back home.
- green card holder by applying or being on welfare heavly reduces his chances of getting a citizenship. As such most of them avoid it as much as they can.
To get a citizenship you have to prove that you are a productive member of society, and welfare doesn't look good on record.

As such, most immigrants will get a job flipping burgers rather then apply for unemployment.

@Udie
You entertain me to tears Udie. I see that nothing has changed from our old discussion about stereotypes, you do remember that, don't you ?


They should be glad we haven't reacted like we did back in WW2 with internment camps. They should be glad that we haven't thrown every non=citizen out of the country to protect ourselves.

Personaly I think they should consider themselves lucky to even be able to work as a non-citizen.

You make a stupid post about "them", the godawful immigrants, without knowing that "they" are acctually UNITED STATES PERNAMENT RESIDENTS with same rights as yourself, bare for voting. In 5 years, they will become same US Citizen as you are, without regard for their race or place of birth.  But instead of talking about facts, you resort to :

ever heard of not biting the hand that feeds you?

And then you go on your pathetic little rant about leftist crap. My party ? I don't belong to any party. I just don't like the people who feel "superior" to others based on some silly perception, which in your case is your place of birth.

Had you made a post asking on the subect, those among us who are immigrants, would have explained it to you. Instead, you choose to make insults mixed with populistic "send them home" message. You didn't want an opinion, you wanted affirmation. Well, here it is. You are indeed a hateful person. Congratulations.

[Ripsnort]

That's not true FD, there are hundreds of thousands illegal immigrants that get federal dollars in California.  Educate yourself.

[Ripsnort]

Oops, I stand corrected, about the only good thing Clinton did was sign this bill:

Undocumented immigrants, were hit                  again, and are now ineligible for all federal programs, except select emergency medical                  services, some immunization programs, and some non-monetary benefits from certain                  programs, yet to be defined. SSI and Food Stamps will only be available to citizens,                  veterans and residents who have paid social security for at least 40 quarters, or a                  minimum of 10 years.

Benefits to legal immigrants stop one month after their eligibility is reviewed, which                  should happen in the next year. If benefits are denied, an appeal process is possible.                  Clinton's actions immediately prompted criticism from within the ranks of the Democratic Party.  

[midnight Target]

Immigrants and welfare

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by midnight Target
Immigrants and welfare

Yep, coincides with my earlier post:

The numbers are up, not so much
                                           because more people are coming to the
                                           United States, but because people who
                                           are here legally are afraid of losing their
                                           federal benefits. In particular, the
                                           welfare reform package would end
                                           benefits for all legal immigrants who
                                           aren't citizens, including welfare, food
                                           stamps and supplemental security

[Ripsnort]

And lets not forget why:

http://detnews.com/2001/metro/0109/30/a04-306685.htm

[Udie at Work]

Originally posted by fd ski
You make a stupid post about "them", the godawful immigrants, without knowing that "they" are acctually UNITED STATES PERNAMENT RESIDENTS with same rights as yourself, bare for voting. In 5 years, they will become same US Citizen as you are, without regard for their race or place of birth.  


 Good god you're bad at inventing statements that I didn't make.   Every post you've made in this thread you have tried to twist something that I've said into something that you think I should say.  Never once did I ever say godawful immigrants.  I did say silly immigrants, but I was referring to the ones in the article I posted in that same post.   I think you're pissed because you think I have something against you as an immigrant to our country, well I don't.   I think you're welcome here and am glad that we have people that love our country enough to leave their own to live here and go for the "American Dream" .  

 Please don't be so ignorant to presume that I know nothing about immigration laws.   Immigration laws are, always have been and always will be subject to change.  Did you ever take the Ellis Island tour?  I did, you can learn alot there about the history of immigration and our country.   Remember while you were back in communist Polland ,  I was in school learning about all the diferent times of immigration into our country.   hehe more errogance from you.

And then you go on your pathetic little rant about leftist crap. My party ? I don't belong to any party. I just don't like the people who feel "superior" to others based on some silly perception, which in your case is your place of birth.  


 Yet again inserting you're own reality.  Show me anywhere that I've said I was superior to anybody.  Show me where I said you were part of any party.   Show me anywhere I said anything that you've said I did in this thread.   You can't because you're full of it.  Dude do you understand what I'm saying?  In your blind rage you are being dishonest with us and yourself, that's not good man.  Let me see if i can get this to sink into you're thick headed ideology blinding mind,  the comment about them going home was to illustrate that once they got there they'd realize why they came here in the first place and not do stupid toejam like they are doing.  After re-reading it I should have finished the thought, but was in a hurry because I'm at work, so I'm sorry for that.  Had you read the article you would have seen that the new federal law says that a non-citizen cannont have this job.  It doesn't say a legal resident can work at the job.  Did you even read the article I posted before you started barking?   And you didn't even ask me if I thought it would be ok for them to keep their jobs,  you'd probobly be suprised at the answer.  You ASSume way to much man.  How errogant for you to think you know what I or anybody thinks.  That reeks of superiority complex to me.  Do you think that you're so good you know what others are thinking?

Had you made a post asking on the subect, those among us who are immigrants, would have explained it to you. Instead, you choose to make insults mixed with populistic "send them home" message. You didn't want an opinion, you wanted affirmation. Well, here it is. You are indeed a hateful person. Congratulations.


 Ask what?  I wasn't looking for an answer I was looking for opinions.  

 Well it's good to know you think I'm a hateful person heheh I don't see any love coming from your post there ski.  Yes i noticed your highlighting of them and we  hmmm i hope you don't expect me to write out the word immigrant or silly immigrant every time I need to use them.  Them is a pronoun used to take the place of immigrants,  we is a pronoun used to replace American citizens.  I used the pronouns to shorten up my sentences because I'm at work.  That's basic grammar dude. I think that you're too pissed so you read it like I'm putting the accent on those words,  well you're the one doing that.

 You have done nothing in this thread but attack me, mutated my post to fit what you think I should be thinking as a "conservative".  I'm still waiting to hear why or if you think a non-citizen should be in a security posistion.    I'm waiting for an answer to the question i posed in the first post about why not let cops do this job.  I'm still waiting for you to logicly say anything that pertains to my original post, is it possible for you to do that?  I'm starting to have serious doubts that you can.


 Like I said man you'r pathetic.   keep it coming though it's interesting and the afternoon won't be as busy as this morning.

[Udie at Work]

Originally posted by miko2d
It is not a legal issue but a moral one.
 In some respect Fd-Ski position is morally superior to that of Udie.


How can you make this statement?  I haven't clearly defined my position on this subject, Fdski hasn't done anything in this thread but attack me so how can you know his position?

Wherever one was born, he ended up defending US. It was his concious choice to be here and do that.
 I have no idea if Udie's choice is to be here other then through inertia and there is a much higher probability that if the same Udie was born outside, he may well have ended up on the opposing side.

 
 Man I can honestly say that if I were born outside of this country I would spend all my time trying to get here.  You should see El Paso, Tx.  You can see accross the border into Mexico and man does it look poor.  There's a neighborhood made of  tin shacks on the side of a mountain.  To be frank I don't really blame illegal immigrants for coming here illegally, I'd probobly do the same if I had to.  I do think however that they should try and do it legally.  Texas NEEDS immigrants to do all the jobs us fat cat Americans refuse to do, like build houses, streets or any other labor intensive work.  They are damn good at it too.



 Without knowing Udie or Fd-Ski personally - just based on info available here, if I were told that one has joined Taliban and asked to bet which, I know where my money would go.

 Hopefuly not on me  but I don't think FDski would either.

  There may be a case made that in some respects immigrant workers in general may be more reliable then americans in general.

 see the above paragraph

May be it would be better to have their citizenship expedited in some cases rather then have them wait 6 years - they will still be the same people, right?

 not necessarily,  you can learn alot in 6 years.  Personally I want every citizen to know our laws and traditions before they take the test.  

 Those particular immigrants in question do sound like prettythangholes for not respecting our laws, however imperfect - but I understand that theya re pissed off becasue they are likely to lose their jobs (which they were not perfirming that well, apparently).


 Wow you read the article  yeah that was the impression I got of them too.  That's why I made the experience crack.  My impression from all the debate they had about that law was that we'd be getting an entirely new security force, which I think is needed.  So I am somewhat disapointed that we still have the same guys doing the job, only now they are federal employees so they get more rights than the rest of us.



 Earning citisenship as a requirement would be a great benefit to the society. Our laws and customs openly admit it - while those born in US are not excluded, everybody else is carefully screened for granting legal residence and then tested for suitability for citizenship - including agreeing to bear arms in defence.

  Especialy while we're at war...

 
Unless we assume that americans are different species from non-americans and somehow have the desirable properties genetically encoded, we just admit to certain hypocricy.
 Of course the rules are made by superior power (majority in this case) - so they do not necessarily have to be moral or even sensible.


 I think I agree with that but I seem to be having a "doper" moment.

Can you tell that I am a Heinlein fan?

 miko



 What's Heinlein?  Thanks for being rational too miko  hopefuly you can see that I'm not the racist zenophobe that fdski is trying to paint me as.



 Ripsnort and Tah Gut,


 Thanks guys for trying to keep this thread on topic  S!  I thought when I posted this that it would make an interesting topic to talk about.

[weazel]

Somebody disagrees with you and you imediately start with the old leftist montra about conservatives. You can't even openly or honestly look at another opinion with out doing this, at least this is the impression I've gotten of you over the past couple of years.

ROTFL!

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, just swap the words leftist and conservative and you have...  Udie.

"mommy those men don't agree with me" list.

Spot on Bart, I can't help but feel sorry for the rigid narrow minded twits who believe the "conservative" trash that the republican party vomits.

No big deal though, only 3 more years and the American public will throw the little dumb bellybutton out of the White House and America can get back to normal again.

Lets just hope the next election has candidates worthy of consideration, obviously the last election didn't have anyone fit for office.

[Udie at Work]

what was that weazel?  I can't hear you


Ripsnort,

 Could you help me out here?  I"m going to take a guess at what's in Weazel's post.  HMMMM He attacked me didn't he?  Did he put ONE thing in there that has to do with this topic?  If so I'll read it, if not.....

[Ripsnort]

Weazel again loses any arguements by spewing names right off the bat

"Lets just hope the next election has candidates worthy of consideration, obviously the last                            election didn't have anyone fit for office."

I agree with you here, I voted for the better of the "two lessors"..but I am surprised at how well he's performed in the White house.  Look for a re-election in 2004.

[weazel]

Udie said:

"your either a ignorant or stupid bastard"


Isn't it funny how the so called "conservatives" rally around each other and only admonish the people with opposing viewpoints?
  A bit hypocritical isn't it?

 "Rigid narrow minded twit" isn't nearly as offensive as the above statement...unless the shoe fits.